“If somebody’s going to punch me, I’m going to punch back,” Verizon CEO Dan Schulman says in this episode of The CEO Signal.

Schulman, who came out of retirement six months ago to lead the $200 billion telecoms company, reveals that he initially turned the job down — twice. But his mandate is blunt: stop losing customers to its rivals, regain Verizon’s “swagger,” and move it from a defensive posture to one that is “playing to win.”

That reset has come with hard choices. Schulman discusses Verizon’s major restructuring, why he chose to announce 13,000 job cuts all at once rather than “bleed it out over multiple quarters,” and why he thinks CEOs have responsibilities to employees who are leaving as well as those who remain.

Schulman describes the job of leadership as defining reality while inspiring hope — even when the reality is uncomfortable.

Schulman also looks ahead to the convergence of AI, quantum computing and robotics, and argues that CEOs need to be open-minded, humble and fast-moving. “A quick decision that is wrong and you self-correct,” he says, “is way better than spending months creating the perfect decision.”

About the show The CEO Signal is Semafor’s interview platform for conversations with the global CEOs whose decisions are shaping the future of the new world economy. Hosted by Penny Pritzker and Andrew Edgecliffe-Johnson, the show explores the moments of judgment that define leadership.

Penny Pritzker is the founder and chairman of PSP Partners and served as U.S. Secretary of Commerce from 2013 to 2017.

Andrew Edgecliffe-Johnson is CEO Editor at Semafor and a former Financial Times journalist who has spent decades covering global companies and corporate leadership.