Tell me about this journey from being a lawyer to now also a politician.

I’ve been a politician for last two and a half years. I’ll call it a good journey. Something I feel that I’ve been doing something productive in my life apart from being a practising lawyer. I’m doing something which I’m supposed to do. And this is the mechanism I have chosen—to become a political figure, do politics and serve people by means of politics. By adding a little spice of basic intellect that I personally felt that was missing from Jammu. I’ve been always thinking that why a lot of people have been asking me why you join politics. And so I always felt that see, Jammu has been lagging behind because we had a little bit of political bankruptcy. Our priorities were not set, we were driven by agendas. And somewhere while trying to achieve the larger goal or to contribute to the nation’s success we somehow were compromising on our basic needs. And those compromises were basically being used to create a regional divide.

Regional divide between Kashmir and Jammu? So you want to bridge the gap?

I want to bridge the gap. I want to tell people that see, this is because there’s only one narrative being set. And that is driven by the fact that see, people want vote. In power corridors people think, okay, let’s support this narrative and we will be successful. But are they doing any kind of service?

Recently there was this incident of the cancellation of a medical college at Shri Mata Vaishno Devi Medical College. Supporters of the Sangharsh Samiti came out, distributed sweets, took out a bike rally, and prayed at temples—celebrating just because 42 people from other region with different names had qualified. As a Jammuite and politician, what kind of message was being telegraphed to the world?

See the message, it is what we have been seeing all across the country. There’s a sadistic pleasure that these religion-driven samitis organizations—RSS, BJP, ABVP, VHP—do, they try to take Indian people and more particularly the Hindus, giving them a drive that see, 400 years back, 500 years back, one person who happened to be an Islam follower, happened to be a Muslim, came to India, did this to our temples, did this to our women, did this to our men. Now it’s a time we have to avenge it. That’s the message. And my fellow Indians and my fellow people in Jammu are falling prey to that thing. Whereas we have to show them that see this is my religion, this is my—we call it Asanskriti. This is my religion, my Tezheeb (culture), which says that see we are one of the oldest religions in the world. Our legacy is big. We are big-hearted people. By avenging, what are we going to avenge, and from whom? So that kind of sadistic pleasure is being infused.

Recently you had this Gal Baat event—a dialogue by the youth—and the first part happened in Srinagar, organised by your party as Kath Baat, which is the Kashmiri equivalent of Gal Baat. You invited different people from different walks of life. Was that also part of an attempt to bridge the gap and hear what people were thinking in the young demography?

See the idea about Kath Baat in Kashmir was slightly different from the way we did it in Jammu. In Kashmir the young people have their own challenges. We as political leaders have been doing it again and again, repeating. So we also need to hear and listen to people. We also have to understand their plight. Every house in Kashmir has a different story which is related to the insurgency and the militancy which has happened and which is a harsh reality. That’s what was Kath Baat there—apart from that young entrepreneurs, business fraternity. In Jammu, I intended to give the platform to those who do not have the platform, but are those people who matter. The idea was to convey what Jammu has, what the young people in Jammu has, what are their aspirations.

What were the broader points that were put forth?

As far as the industries were concerned, the industrial packages is something that they want. They are not saying that see, you do not let the industries come in. They say make more space for industries. But you have to give us packages. Because see, this is a unique situation. We don’t have much of raw material. So material comes from outside and then it has to go back after selling. So that’s the process.

There were students who wanted educational reforms. Talked a lot about sanitation in the colleges. Reservation was one of the major issues. They wanted a rationalisation. Let it be clear, clarified what is the actual stand. How many people are there? How much is the data? So people insisted that see, you have to put this controversy to rest. And obviously there were concerns in reservation as far as the category of those who are marginalised. See, we have to understand, we have Scheduled Caste population who actually marginalised in Jammu. The OBCs also had their concerns.

So jobs, reservation, industrial packages, drugs—how to combat substance abuse.

There were stories narrated on how drug has become a major challenge. How much it has come up, how frequently it is available, how easily it is available. So those were the concerns and these were all people, all the speakers were less than 40. And there were artists. There was a radio jockey also.

Now you have experienced active politics on the ground, meeting people from different walks of life. As a lawyer who understands law, what are the changes on Jammu’s sociopolitical landscape post 2019?

Yes, there is. Jammu has gone through different phases since 2019. On August 5, 2019, Kashmir was locked, everyone was locked. I remember, I left this place for my court. It took me two hours to reach because it was completely packed. People were on the roads celebrating, firecrackers, bazaars had opened earlier and everything. Then we got to know that see the abrogation has happened. At that particular time, people went through that particular phase. It was a massive euphoria. And then the facade started to evade away.

It started to happen after the present Lieutenant Governor came into play. Then suddenly people in Jammu started realising that see everything has started changing demographically here. See the industries suddenly around the industry—the pay, settlement, hawkers—suddenly crime rate starts increasing. So these things started to change. And then the dominance of the officers started to come, one power center. And then extreme neglect. So these are the things that suddenly people have started. Now people understand it, they know it. But no one is actually coming forward to them in front of them with a solution. Because the narratives are being controlled by Delhi, by Nagpur for that matter. And for that matter in the LG’s office.

Aditya Gupta says Jammu and Kashmir are so interlinked that people who are trying to divide it are looking at it only from one lens, which is a lens of religion. | Photo Credit: X-@AdityaVgupta

So you are saying that the federal structure or the federal concept was kind of breached or challenged with what happened on August 5, 2019? And now the impression in Jammu is also that somebody from outside is actually ruling us and we did not get anything?

That’s what has happened. That is what people felt. See, the way officers behave, the way everything is in name of getting channelised is making more corruption friendly. In normal industries, suddenly the packages started drying away. As far as business is concerned, Darbar move—see if Darbar move happened...

The government practice was abandoned for four years. Is that now a positive change as far as the Jammu economy is concerned with Darbar move reopening after five years?

First time after the move has been restored, the response is positive. Most of the people are happy and most of the traders are happy. Jammu and Kashmir are so interlinked that people who are trying to divide it are looking at it only from one lens, which is a lens of religion. They do not understand that Jammu and Kashmir people are interconnected by a lot of factors.

Economy is one of them. Culture—not exactly, but there is that. I have a brother across the tunnel. Business also is a major factor that drives the families. And Jammu doesn’t have that much of substantial on its own. It depends, it largely depends. Its economy depends on the number of people who used to come here during winters, especially because three months schools are closed. So that economy was shaken so much that people had to actually lay off employees. So that thing is something that people understand. So Darbar move was also something which has given them an awakening.

I heard some of your speeches and statements. You often talk about this phrase “political bankruptcy.” That Jammu is politically sort of orphaned or bankrupt. Somebody else takes the limelight and narrative is dominated by some other. What do you exactly mean? Is there a silent majority in Jammu which actually feels differently than what we see in the political narratives?

I call it political bankruptcy because messages being tried to deliver to Jammu all across—I have also heard that message. I also listened to the elders saying the thing that see, we do not get anything. That is something which I kept on hearing. And now over the years, one of the reasons that I decided to come into politics was like, see, Jammu always got its share.

You had Ghulam Nabi Azad as Chief Minister. You have now the Deputy Chief Minister..

Pandit Dogra was there. After that in Congress government there was Mangat Ram Sharma, Nirmal Singh, Kavinder Gupta. And there’s so many—Lal Singh, Madan Lal Sharma. But in spite of that, when things used to come, just something was happening. Either they were not assertive enough or they were not understanding it enough. So something was wrong. The wrong as per me is that see these political people never had that vision to get it.

We participated in an agitation, AIIMS agitation. I was one of the few people in the initially in the bar association who said that see, this is absolutely wrong. We don’t need IIT, IIM. You let it off to Kashmir. Because our problem was that we don’t have the medical infrastructure. We got AIIMS. But was there any agitation in Kashmir as far as IIT and IIM are concerned? No. Why? Because they know what they want. They said okay fine, AIIMS Awantipora is coming. It’s fine with us. Even if Jammu gets it, no conflict. See, we have to pick up our priorities and understand what we want.

So you are talking about political maturity also.

Yes. Because Jammu politics has always been driven—what Kashmir is picking up, we will want that. That is not political maturity. See, had Jammu been placed geographically anywhere in the heartland—when I say UP, these States—we are placed in north of the country, closer to geographically, we are placed to Kashmir. Had we been placed next to Kerala also or to any southern State I would have kept the same idea. Because we are talking about a politically mature society.

The problem with Jammu always has been and its leadership has been that they always either not asked or desired to get it, had the vision to get it or they have been too shy to ask it. So socially if your leaders are not changing then we have to push them.

You fought Assembly election and you lost to the BJP candidate. How was that experience from being a practising lawyer then asking people to vote for you with your own narrative? How has it changed Aditya Gupta as a person with this interaction?

Election obviously was a roller coaster ride for me. When I got the mandate, it was exactly 30 days prior to the elections. So there were people who told me that see okay fine, you got a mandate. Now you should contest like normal election, you’ll get this much of votes. But I wanted to actually use it because since I’m into a serious business of politics and I really want to do something for and leave something for Jammu basically. So I dove into it properly. I met a lot of people and the narrative was basically so infused.

I contested from Jammu East. It’s in a way you can call in Jammu the Saffron land—people are related with RSS and not from today, for last 50 years, 60 years, their families all together. The idea of going to them was that I at least presented an idea: see, you always have been voting for BJP. You have been voting as the RSS has been telling you to. And what have you actually achieved? Now try to just change yourself. Vote on agendas, vote on issues. See the BJP candidate from Jammu East did not have a personal manifesto for the constituency and he nowhere said that he wants the Darbar move restored and Darbar move’s maximum impact is in this constituency.

Jammu has been always either vote for BJP because you are a BJP supporter or Congress—because you don’t want BJP. Those who don’t want to vote for BJP will vote for you. But people are not voting for themselves, for their own jobs. So I tried to put in like see there’s an agenda for the election and let me take it to people. I did only two rallies, rest everything was a foot thing and I’m very happy that at least I was able to infuse some idea in some people’s mind. Because even if there’s no doubt about the fact that they didn’t vote for me, the numbers speak for themselves. But fact is that see they still talk to me if I meet them. They do discuss those ideas at least. Some kind of conversation at least because it’s a longer battle.

You are doing this Gal Baat, trying to bridge the gap. Do you also have plans to bridge the gap between Kashmir and Jammu and also Ladakh?

See, I personally believe that the people in Jammu have an issue that they feel that see we are somewhere disconnected with Kashmir and Kashmir has been taking a portion from us. So that’s the discontent. But to have that conversation to bridge that gap first Jammu has to be on one page. See what we have been hearing is the voices that have been coming from the capital city around it.

We do not hear voices coming in from Chenab as well as Pir Panjal. Because culturally, Jammu Hindi heartland is more culturally connected with Chenab as well as Pir Panjal—you have cross cutting connections all together. So these three subdivisions of the Jammu region have to come together. So it is very important that you find one common ground here. My attempt right now is to find that one ground and place people and get people at least there, so that these religious lines are not the common ground.

People from Kishtwar, Bhaderwah, Doda also say that they are more linked to Kashmir as far as language is concerned or some part of their culture is concerned. Now another question—in 1924, way back during the Dogra period, there was an agitation in Jammu where people fought for this permanent residency State subject law. So as a lawyer, what were your thoughts on abrogation of Article 370? How do you see that?

I have been always a very strong supporter of Article 370 because I thought that see, I have done all my education from government institutes. So till 10th I have been into a private school, 11th-12th I did from a government school, university—Jammu University—I did my law from. So I know the benefits. With my merit in my 12th or for that matter in my entrance examination I wouldn’t have made to a premier institute like Jammu University’s law school had that 370 strength or the backing or safeguard I was not having.

As jobs are concerned we had our jobs. And apart from that the most important thing that I always felt—we here already had a lot of people from Punjab. People from Punjab already were here. The cultural dilution was happening and that was affecting. But there was a safeguard. Because our people, local population, not economically very strong. Our lands was the only jewel we had. With this abrogation that is also taken away.

So it’s now a problem of land, problem of scholarships, problem of jobs, inflation, economy.

See education first of all—till university, you’re practically paying for free. So education was limited to you. Now that is being covered across. Jobs—now people are participating. Land also—now someone can buy. Earlier, even if a bigger company was to come in, maximum that company could do was take it on lease. And a person who was owner at that instant might not have been much more beneficial for him not to sell it. Today they’re not left with the options. Our lands are going, our farmlands are going. We are going out of horticulture business practically. There’s no next generation coming in for agriculture. So this is thing that has basically caused massive damage.