“Because libraries have always been a part of any civilization they are not negotiable. They are part of our inheritance.” ― Ali Smith, Public Library and Other Stories / interview with Xander Marro: This Is The Modern World with Trouble
2026-04-24
·
via WFMU's recent playlists
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Listener comments!
: props to anyone who recognizes the film that Ali Smith's book cover is borrowing an image from...
www.penguinrandomhouse.com...
Handy Haversack: Bright Thursday greetings, Trouble and all the Troubled.
Handy Haversack: The world ALWAYS needs more Leonora Carrington.
Mike in Montreal: Good Thursday Trouble and assembled modernists
Listener Bop Monroe: came for the EFD, stayed for the Trouble.
good morning m'am.
riley: Good good morning Trouble and everyone!
TDK60: Good morning, DJ Trouble. A Leonora Carrington image!
jmr3: good morning - listening from the library, in fact
AYAYRON: I was feeling down all week until this morning when I fixed my WFMU deficiency! It’s a miracle!! GM everyone
cricket: good morning Trouble, all!
steveo: Good morning. Adore Carrington!
sophie in vt: good morning all and trouble! lovely day today!
jinjabredboy: Good day Trouble and all
jmr3:
↳ Trouble @5:43
I didn't recognize it, but looked it up- I've got a professional advantage maybe. Won't spoil it for the real film buffschresti: Morning Trouble and troubledors!
Marley P. Dogg: Good morning Trouble and those making good trouble
jay g: this is gorgeous
Charles in Chicago:
↳ jmr3 @9:06
(i looked it up too ... it's in the credits for the book)steveo: Just noticed that the temperature and the dew point will be diverging nicely today 💋
mlsgrrl: Thanks for this Okonski!
DD: Wow, LOVE this Runner Up! Ty
Ken From Hyde Park:
↳ steveo @9:07
Any word on the pollen count? Also: good morning!steveo:
↳ Ken From Hyde Park @9:08
Uncountable, I'm afraidbradford: Good morning Trouble & all.
unpopularfred:
↳ Song: "runner up" by "okonsi"
this hits the spotsteveo:
↳ steveo @9:09
And also, hello!birdfrand: This is really nice. A little rimsky kordakov vibe
birdfrand: *korsakov
bluedel: Hello Trouble, listeners. Time to breathe a little.
unpopularfred: have to make a work phone call, can't bring myself to take off the headphones
Crownless Gander: Good morning! Loving the music. Interesting quote about libraries and civilization. I happen to be in the middle of an interesting essay about the Marxist rejection of "civilization" as code for whatever culture the ruling class wishes to impose, and then later reimagining of it as an anticolonial instrument of national continuity and political legitimacy.
steveo:
↳ steveo @9:09
Approaching infinitySean Bikes:
↳ Song: "viento calido" by "Greg Foat & Gigi Masin"
This makes me feel like I am a B&W mime in a Kenneth Anger moviePoL in Berlin: Hiya Trouble! Digging the mellow vibe.
Cemetary Dave: Mornin' all. It's a gorgeous looking day out there for some good trouble.
Trouble: good morning thursday people!
teenageriot: great track, thanks Trouble!
Fredericks: Loving these piano sounds, Trouble.
DD: Go, Mal! Go, Trouble!
Peter from Saranac Lake NY: Good morning Trouble and fellow travelers. Liking this Mal Waldron. It's a different side of him than I've heard in the past.
Fredericks:
↳ Crownless Gander @9:13
What article are you referring to?Peter from Saranac Lake NY:
↳ Crownless Gander @9:13
Crownless Gander, is this in a URL that you could share?Trouble: happy library week! what better way to celebrate than to come on down to monty hall tonight:
www.eventbrite.com...
Sean Bikes:
↳ Song: "ca m'est egal" by "marie -paule belle"
I love this alreadymelinda: Good morning Trouble and friends!
steveo:
↳ Song: "ca m'est egal" by "marie -paule belle"
Me da egual.Handy Haversack:
↳ Song: "ca m'est egal" by "marie -paule belle"
I used "ça m'est egal" in conversation with a Swiss guy I waited tables with years ago, and he was shocked and impressed that I knew the idiom!melinda: love the Carrington painting
m444rs: gooood morning
Handy Haversack:
↳ Handy Haversack @9:29
Dag, *twenty-seven* years ago.steveo: Les oiseaux
Crownless Gander:
↳ Peter from Saranac Lake NY @9:27
Yes! It's the latest newsletter from Tricontinental, by Vijay Prashad, available here: thetricontinental.org...Toothgrinder Tom: @Handy sounds like it very much wasn’t all the same to him!
Handy Haversack:
↳ Toothgrinder Tom @9:33
Oui!Handy Haversack: Blossom Dearie's birthday? Shouldn't we all be getting the week off from work?!
Dano59:
↳ Song: "ca m'est egal" by "marie -paule belle"
c'st chichiteux!Dano59:
↳ Handy Haversack @9:34
ask your attorney Bernieluker duker: What a voice! What song do I recognize this sampled by?!
common: trouble, all
Handy Haversack:
↳ Song: "It Amazes Me" by "blossom dearie"
It might have been hearing "Rhode Island Is Famous for You" on this very program that made me fall in love with Blossom Dearie.TVP: For me, it was probably Figure Eight when I was a kid.
Handy Haversack:
↳ Song: "It Amazes Me" by "blossom dearie"
CDs available for under $5 on Discogs. LPs $50 and up.steveo:
↳ Song: "They Say It's Spring" by "Blossom Dearie"
Sneezing as I listenDano59:
↳ Song: "They Say It's Spring" by "Blossom Dearie"
I have "Blossoms on Broadway" (1979, never reissued) & surprised I don't have more on vinyl - Blossom & Billie Holiday are the only reasons to own a record playerMick: Had to stop in and tip my hat to Blossom Dearie's b-day!
josquin depressed: morning everyone. digging the leonora carrington painting
Charles in Chicago: Man every time I hear Blossom Dearie it just makes me smile. My wife (from the other room) - "This is nice!"
Listener Jonny in MA/RI:
↳ Song: "Mestizo Eyes" by "Bobbi Humphrey"
really?lol
steveo: I like Paterson in the rain
Sherman: The amount of Love you put into your choices Trouble is plain to see.
A reservoir of courage.
A “Good Trouble”.
Love.
Headlong: Terrific mellow groove Trouble. We sure need mellow these days!
StringOFperils: Good morning, Trouble and co
Toothgrinder Tom: Get Micah on the horn!
Mick: Blossom & Bobbi both such treasures! I was lucky enough to see Blossom Dearie in the late 90s (early 00s?) So so good
Zip7: Good morning Troubled modernists! Been listening in the car and enjoying the fingersnappin' cool on this lovely morning. Nice!
steveo: Oh yeah give me some disco flute!
Franco Twinkie:
↳ Zip7 @10:11
Hey Zip! About ready to go to work myself - at the kitchen table!VinylJim: Blossom Dearie had her own record label Daffodil Records.
I had the good fortune to promote some of her live concerts at Highlights In Jazz.
In the early 1950s she lived in Paris and recorded with the French vocal group called The Blue Stars.
regina j:
↳ VinylJim @10:18
I had the good fortune of seeing Blossom Dearie at Danny's Skylight Room in the later years of her career.Zip7:
↳ Franco Twinkie @10:18
Hi Franco! Really liked what you sentDr Kayak:
↳ Song: "Mama Roux" by "Dr John"
The Dr is sounding good this morningJason from Houston:
↳ Song: "Mama Roux" by "Dr John"
YEPFranco Twinkie:
↳ Zip7 @10:23
That was Tuesday Afternoon. A lot of progress since then.Cal Zone!: Loving this show! Great sets so far!
Santos L. Halper: Thanks for that Eddie Kendricks, wow.
Jason from Houston: WHERE ARE YOU, KARL?
Crownless Gander:
↳ Song: "time out of mind" by "steely dan"
OK, this is unexpected.Mick:
↳ regina j @10:20
Metropolitan Room for me - a rare treat!Zip7: I'm wondering what folks use as their daily news source. I can't really handle the NY Times anymore. Washington Post is Bezos's mouthpiece and the writers I liked are long gone. Any suggestions?
common:
↳ Song: "time out of mind" by "steely dan"
dan!Trouble: @ zip: the guardian
glue_horizon: 😎
Christy D: Lovin this show! Thanks Trouble!
Mike Sin:
↳ Song: "time out of mind" by "steely dan"
Is this song about heroin use?Handy Haversack:
↳ Zip7 @10:31
I scan the Guardian headlines to just keep an eye on things. But I read deeply more locally: Hell Gate, The City, Streetsblog NYC.Cemetary Dave:
↳ Zip7 @10:31
The Independent for me is a morning regular.bravedelay:
↳ Zip7 @10:31
if you aren't social-media averse, i follow my favorite writers that left those outlets and they often link to quality reportingDennis: Terry Callier ❤️
bikemail: Love Terry Callier so much
prodan: Nujabes sampled this song! Lovely.
sgillies:
↳ Trouble @10:32
The Guardian is good, and amusing in a tabloid way. There's almost always something sordid or wink-wink-nudge-nudge. Is this an English newspaper thing?Handy Haversack:
↳ Handy Haversack @10:34
Hell Gate in particular is a worker-owned collective and worth supporting. Good reporting from prisons and lots of calling out the cops on their eternal bullshit.Zip7: Thanks for recommendations! Very helpful
chresti:
↳ Song: "ordinary joe" by "Terry Callier"
I kept expecting to hear "don't sleep in the subway"Fredericks:
↳ Song: "They Say It's Spring" by "Blossom Dearie"
Did she ever work with Bob Dorough? They have a similar vibe.Fredericks: From Reddit: The University of Georgia women's tennis team visited the White House Tuesday to celebrate their 2025 national championship. In the official photo, they can be found behind the men in suits…
regina j:
↳ Zip7 @10:31
I haven't read through the thread, so I don't know if anyone else suggested this: NOTUS is a new publication staffed largely by former WaPo writers and editors, and it seems pretty good so far. You may want to check it out.chresti:
↳ Fredericks @10:43
Ha! Jeezsteveo: I belong to Prince
Cemetary Dave:
↳ regina j @10:47
Just did a quick perusal. Yes, this looks worthwhile. i'll be including this with my morning coffee reading.TVP:
↳ Fredericks @10:42
Dorough did write Figure Eight, which she sung.Mick:
↳ Zip7 @10:38
She's repetitive at this point, but I still read Heather Cox Richardson's newsletter most mornings.Dick Tofel's 'Second Rough Draft' weekly newsletter/substack has some good stuff on journalism and the business of journalism. (not an anti-capitalist voice, but a very, very smart writer)
Definitely second Handy re. Hell Gate for NYC news
TVP: Hate how NJ political news is dominated by that slimey Bridgegate felon Wildstein.
PoL in Berlin: Don't dis the Dan, Trouble. They were great!!
Bones:
↳ Song: "sumire, september love" by "ippu-do"
New to me and I'm off to Discogs! So goodBucci: Xander! Great artist
Trouble: Pol in berlin- not dissing steely dan, just dont know much about them except what i heard on the radio as a child
Bucci: Love super specific RI content
Trouble: @Bucci: your RI knowledge goes deep- mad respect!
zachary:
↳ Song: "interview with Xander Marro, Providence artist, p...
Interesting. How many of those followers are bots, though?zachary:
↳ Song: "interview with Xander Marro, Providence artist, p...
Is this the website we are talking about?whatsgoingoninrhodeisland.com
zachary:
↳ Bucci @11:05
It's a new requirement at the station. Once a week, we need a Rhode Island update.Good morning, Bucci!
Bucci:
↳ Trouble @11:06
Right back at ya 😎Handy Haversack: Rhode Island is famous for Bu(cci)!
zachary:
↳ Song: "interview with Xander Marro, Providence artist, p...
I tried searching, but couldn't find the parody account. Does someone have a link?Deano de los Muertos: I’ve noticed since rejoining Instagram, that almost every post is accompanied by a wildly inaccurate AI synopsis
Big Jerk: Shark was Russian spy , and had to be eliminated.
zachary:
↳ Song: "interview with Xander Marro, Providence artist, p...
This is what I find fascinating: there are many media people now who hate those who work behind pseudonym.en.wikipedia.org...
A lot of the early debates, for instance, around the United States Constitution utilized pseudonyms.
en.wikipedia.org...
Trouble: whatsgoingonwithwhatsgoingon
Dano59:
↳ zachary @11:14
AI-generated "news articles" especially in the medical sphere, with fake bylines are the WORST.Dano59:
↳ Deano de los Muertos @11:11
I'm kind of glad Insta doesn't work for me anymore.Vivian:
↳ Fredericks @10:43
I saw that post. Pretty much sums up the current administration- appearing to take credit for the accomplishments of others. Not to mention disrespecting the women's team ..Angered me to the depth of my soul.Handy Haversack: This is fun, but I'm afraid I need to try to do dog stuff with the dog. We'll see how it goes in this stupid surgical shoe.
Thanks, Trouble!
Scottfuzz: You’re basing this off of your friend saying that nobody was standing around talking about windmills killing sharks. Was your friend involved in every conversation that day on the beach? Were there other groups of people having separate conversations? Seems hard to believe.
zachary:
↳ Dano59 @11:17
Thanks, Dano59. Oh yes. But it's irrelevant if you know the author. Lies and bullshit are still lies and bullshit.There's AI generated slop shit in peer-reviewed scientific journals, too.
www.nature.com...
Knowing the identity doesn't change the content. It may help inform perceived intent, but the underlying content is the same.
Dano59: Question everything. Critical thinking is our last best defense. (heard on Stephanie Miller yesterday about thousands of new AI right-wing/Trump supporter accounts across all socials, not just TwitterX.)
Bucci: Everyone I know in RI follows that dumb account
zachary:
↳ Handy Haversack @11:18
Awwww. May your dog heal soon!zachary:
↳ Dano59 @11:20
Agreed. And you can't outsource thinking to AI. It kills your critical capacities.All political ideologies are being botted up and joining social networks.
Ideas are still ideas. Don't believe anything by default. It's a modern horror.
Dano59:
↳ zachary @11:20
I don't know about knowing the author, only that putting a real name on something is actionable. But so far I can tell what's fake, not just by content but the tone/voice of the piece. Credit my many years as a newsroom copy editor, I guess...bluedel: we should all be able to afford decent housing with a wiggle room without thinking too much about it
Scottfuzz: Dano59, there are just as many AI left-wing supporter accounts across all socials. Tit for tat. No need for bias.
Ken From Hyde Park:
↳ zachary @11:22
I understand the government is floating the idea to spend billions to turn over air traffic control to AI computers. What could possibly go wring?Dano59:
↳ zachary @11:22
"a modern horror" indeed! Lovecraftian, even.zachary: I am curious to know why Xander doesn't like "police blotter journalism".
Dano59:
↳ Scottfuzz @11:24
oh I don't doubt there are, but maybe not as many.2666ad: Younger folks are skipping No Kings because they don't see peaceful protest as particularly useful!
zachary:
↳ Dano59 @11:23
Agreed that having a real name creates actions one can take directly about the person. Ad hominem really. Without knowing the identity, you are forced to fight speech with more speech.Yes. We can still identify slop...for now. =(
Bucci: AS220
zachary:
↳ Ken From Hyde Park @11:24
What the hell! More horror! And AI has zero accountability. I read about several failings with law enforcement using facial recognition only to harass, detain, arrest, and jail the wrong people.mrs.bucci: So glad to hear Xander on WFMU she is a PVD icon!! Hi from Jackie and Cyrus!
Dano59:
↳ TVP @10:57
Blossom also sang Unpack Your Adjectives, and some of the verses in Mother Necessity.Scottfuzz: Instead of discussing the counter argument to rent control, the host made judging statements about their characters and the nice house they live in?
zachary:
↳ Dano59 @11:24
Yes. Cosmic horror is all around.common: i miss providence. fun place to live
Mobtownie: …even Johnson & Wales?!?
Scottfuzz: Dano59 thanks for replying, but “maybe”? There are so many things that come from the left that are fake.. but are not shown, not known in the bubble.
Bucky: really enjoying the show today, thank you!
bluedel:
↳ Scottfuzz @11:31
if these things are not shown "in the bubble", who are they shown to?Scottfuzz: 2666ad working to change policies and laws are what is effective.. more so than peaceful protests and definitely more so than violence
zachary: All I know about Rhode Island I know from Bucci and now Xander Marro.
Dano59: Rhode Island, gave us: Quahogs
Family Guy
The Cowsills
Talking Heads
White Mice/Black Dice
Scottfuzz: Bluedel, we have to look outside of our own bubbles. We have to fully understand all sides. We have to make sure we don’t understand the other side only from our own perspectives. We have to understand the other side from their perspective, not just their talking points.
rsj: fried clams
Dano59:
↳ Scottfuzz @11:31
hmmm don't accuse me of 'bias' there pal / I'm here in the fact-based communityTVP:
↳ Dano59 @11:35
And Lou Lamoriello!Dano59:
↳ zachary @11:26
I meant actionable in that the real writer/newsperson or their outlet could sue or at least file a cease and desist.bluedel:
↳ Scottfuzz @11:36
I understand that, I was asking more precisely about these fake AI things coming from the left and wondering what they are and where I can find them.rsj: thought of that burroughs words of advice for young people quote, quite fitting always: AI is a strap-on for the mind. (Old fool sold his soul for a strap on) probably offensive but true, if you can think about it
Dano59:
↳ Scottfuzz @11:36
no argument thereAB in Catskill:
↳ Song: "honey" by "ora cogan"
I really enjoy Ora Cogan. This is a beautiful jam. Thank you Trouble for the great show today! Lifts me up!Scottfuzz: I have a fear that if we can’t remain anonymous online, the government/tech/etc will be able to penalize/demonitize you for not agreeing with them.. for speaking against them.
zachary:
↳ Dano59 @11:38
Ahhhhh. I thought you meant to take action outside of courts. You can still send a cease and desist to their contact details, though.Is this website doing anything illegal?
In the case of this website, if a lawsuit was necessary, there would be subpoena power available to discover more details about the business itself, including registration, bank account, etc. It files state taxes, too.
But a casual person, unless you have standing, won't get at that data.
zachary:
↳ Scottfuzz @11:36
Let us not conflate understanding with agreement though.I often have to tell people that I understand their perspective, but I don't agree with it. And, especially in the case of local politics, that I will actively fight against it.
I see, too often, political disagreements being distilled to a misunderstanding or not "being heard", when, in fact, there are philosophical differences that cannot be overcome in a single engagement, argument, or debate.
Deano de los Muertos:
↳ Song: "ancestral machines" by "The Sorcerers"
Hell yeah, bought this album last week. 🧙♂️🧙♂️Trouble: thanks for listening today
zachary:
↳ Scottfuzz @11:45
That does and continues to happen. However, you only have free speech protections from the government. Not private companies like X, Meta, etc.And even with free speech protections, the government can and will still harass, threaten, and attempt to prosecute you:
www.msn.com...
apnews.com...
Deano de los Muertos:
↳ Trouble @11:51
thank YOU, Trouble!zachary:
↳ Trouble @11:51
Thanks, Trouble. Lovely show. Really enjoyed the interview with Xander as well. Lots of good conversations around free speech, press, pseudonyms, and more.bluedel:
↳ Scottfuzz @11:45
That's a very real concern. Right now, if you apply for a US visa, you need to provide a list of the social media accounts you've used for the past 5 years, and the email adresses you've had for the past 10 years.bluedel: Thanks for the show, and for the interview! Great stuff.
Scottfuzz: Bluedel.. sorry I misunderstood your question. I was thinking more broadly than ai things. Like narratives based on short clips being the complete opposite of the entire context for example.
bradford: Thanks as always, Trouble.
Dano59:
↳ zachary @11:49
that is the crux of the national divide (or that of other countries) - often you can converse and relate irl, but get shut down there or onlineZip7: Thanks for another great show, Trouble. Keep hope alive, modernists!
Cemetary Dave: Thank you, Trouble for another great show. Dig the vibe always.
bluedel:
↳ Scottfuzz @11:54
Definitely, one shouldn't turn off their critical thinking when they agree with what's being presented. You are not immune to propaganda, yadda yadda.tranewreck: Thank you Trouble.
Avspuk:
↳ Song: "breath" by "Vazz"
Thought I'd already clickystarred this.Ken From Hyde Park: Thank you, Trouble.
Dano59: thank you once again for the lovely music & thought-provoking content / inquiry, Trouble. Taking my camera out on a walk after this hoping to capture some bird life.
chris in the redwoods: thanks, Trouble!
Dano59:
↳ Song: "sea horses" by "blueboy"
... still need to see that Sarah Records Story documentary