The avant-garde legend talks collaborating with the British pop superstar and teaming up with Martin Scorsese and Marc Jacobs for the cover of Music, Fashion, Film

In Charli xcx‘s recent Rolling Stone cover story, the British pop star spoke about her ongoing collaboration with one of her heroes, John Cale. Last fall, she teamed up with the Velvet Underground co-founder for “House,” from her soundtrack to Emerald Fennell’s Wuthering Heights. “I just feel really honored to know him,” Charli said of Cale. “It’s like, ‘What the fuck?’” 

Cale went on to appear on the black-and-white cover art for Charli’s upcoming album Music, Fashion, Film, out July 24. The avant-garde legend is seen sitting in a kitchen alongside Martin Scorsese and Marc Jacobs — each one representing a component of music, fashion, and film. We spoke with Cale about all of this for Charli’s cover story, and you can now read the full interview below. “I learned there are no limits to what I could expect from her,” he told us. “I’m determined to find the next layer with her, maybe an operatic stream of conscious vocal.… I’m writing the piece now with her in mind!!!!”

What makes her stand out from other artists today? 
Energy and vivacity mixed with a real knowledge of music, far different from her own. An awareness of cultural shifts on the precipice — how to harness it all whilst not losing her own identity. She’s smart, fun, a bit of a whirlwind, and always curious. Yeah, it’s her laser-focused desire to absorb all that life offers — and try it on for size!

Her sense of discovery in music and film, it’s got no boundaries. And I believe it’s what a lot of people are waiting for around the next curve. Her generosity to my particular history and my current work makes me blush. What happened in the past is just that, past — she’s interested in acknowledging what came before, but pushing into Charli World!

What was it like to work with her on “House”? 
How to turn a puzzle into an introspection that was magical. Doing “House” was a way to understand an approach to trying something new, and finding a different way forward. I didn’t write this because of Wuthering Heights. I wrote this because, Charli. Oftentimes women are put in a box and have less freedom when textualizing historical novels, so I was well-aware of the dangers. I knew I had to be careful and needed elegance to underwrite the emotion. So I tried to give voice to the character, but more importantly to Charli reinventing herself in the moment and being serious about the assignment.

The point that I got to made me aware of the different postures available for creativity, more than I expected. It was important where did it begin and where did it end. The rubric was just that. The prose demanded that a discussion would need to be implied in the text. I didn’t want it delineated. I just wanted it implied. 

Truth be damned. “In every room I hear silence.” When I began writing the words to “House,” it continued. I wanted to keep writing in that vein. It was a tangent that went all the way from “House” to a sense of liturgy in its conclusion. I was really surprised [by] the direction that the prose took, it wasn’t so much a songwriting perspective but very much a methodical theatrical approach, what was learned. I had to stop myself from putting on the brakes because I don’t usually have those brakes. I tried to sense-feel my way to saying several things in different ways. For that opportunity, I thank Charli.   

How did Charli approach you to be on the album cover? 
She said she had an idea to run by me. There was talk of a video, an ode to an imprint of time and place. Next thing, I was on a flight. Ended up in a random kitchen.

What was it like to capture it? Had you met Scorsese and Marc before? 
No, I’d never met either of them until the shoot. Very definition of “experience.” It was a type of surreal cultural compendium assembled to document yet another form of art. I wanted to be a fly on the wall watching this unfold, but I had to be in it. The album cover allows me the birds-eye view of that moment in time. 

Improvisation was key. The critical ingredient to fostering comfort and connection in the company of greatness!