Listener comments!

🤖 ♥ 5:51pm
: AI is cooked. From a company Q&A where the question was about pushing AI tools internally on workers, at the same time that reducing carbon footprints is being emphasized:

"On sustainability, the goals are not in conflict. AI platforms are leveraging increasingly efficient, lower carbon cloud infrastructure. More importantly, AI is enabling more efficient designs, reducing rework, material waste, and overall project impact, ultimately delivering meaningful sustainability benefits where it matters most."

Increasingly *compared to what* may I ask? Where *what* matters most? You know what reduces carbon impacts? Rewinding this tech deathclock ten years.

🤖 ♥ 5:59pm
Handy Haversack: Mark and the Techyons. Going to be listening and backlashing from out back for a spell. But listening! 🤖 ♥ 6:00pm
ultradamno: Mark! Techtonata Centrists! 🤖 ♥ 6:01pm
Bas NL: Hi Mark! Hi all! Hi AI! 🤖 ♥ 6:01pm
Deano de los Muertos: Oh hi Mark 🤖 ♥ 6:01pm
chresti: Hi Mark and markers! ♥ 6:02pm
Peter from Saranac Lake NY: Hello Mark and everyone. 🤖 ♥ 6:02pm
disco_nap_: Yoooooo 🤖 ♥ 6:03pm
herb.nyc: Ahoy. Here, w Taiwan tea and chocolate pastry. ♥ 6:03pm
Ironside: Hey Mark! 🤖 ♥ 6:04pm
disco_nap_: Love to see the Tech Bros lose!! People have the power as Patti Smith sang 🤖 ♥ 6:04pm
disco_nap_: Yes please to big changes in the Big Tech economy ♥ 6:04pm
VantuckyEd: Oh yeh. Saw a slew of them when driving to eastern washington on memorial day weekend. Awful polluting water sucking monstrosities. ♥ 6:06pm
Andrew Waterloo: Did anybody catch Manitoba premier Wab Kinew's response? Not a precise quote "We do not need to be slaves to surveillance capitalism in order participate in the modern digital economy."

But definitely the surveillance capitalism

♥ 6:06pm
Mark Hurst: Hi bravedelay, Handy, ultra, Bas, Deano, chresti, Peter, disco_nap_, herb, Ironside, VantuckyEd, Andrew - thanks for joining! 🤖 ♥ 6:06pm
tim: Hey Mark! Looking forward to this 'good news' show today! ♥ 6:07pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ tim @6:06

Thanks, tim, here's hoping! ♥ 6:07pm
VantuckyEd: even scarier. Talked to a financial guy today and he was totally buying the lies from the AI companies and didn't believe in the bubble. I told him he was very mistaken.   6:07pm
Will - UK: I think the UK is actively dissuading AI companies from investing here. The bubble is already popping 🤖 ♥ 6:07pm
Ken From Hyde Park: Hi, I found out this nugget to avoid AI intrusion: noai.duckduckgo.com ♥ 6:08pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ herb.nyc @6:03

herb - I love Taiwan tea! ♥ 6:09pm
VantuckyEd: Yep. Financial guy (fidelity) didn't bother to look at the P/E of the AI companies or the Debt trading they are doing. Helloooooo? 🤖 ♥ 6:13pm
tim: What does P/E stand for?   6:15pm
Firebottle: I live in a town in Wisconsin where when it was learned of plans for a datacenter, residents started showing up at town meetings and managed to kill the deal for now,,. ♥ 6:15pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ tim @6:13

Price-earnings ratio. Basically it's a company's stock price divided by its earnings: en.wikipedia.org... 🤖 ♥ 6:16pm
tim:

↳ Mark Hurst @6:15

Ah, thanks! ♥ 6:17pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ tim @6:16

Not to be confused with "PE," or private equity, covered here - www.wfmu.org... ♥ 6:17pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ Firebottle @6:15

Good to hear! ♥ 6:18pm
VantuckyEd:

↳ tim @6:13

Price to Earnings ratio - measures a company's current share price relative to its per-share earnings. ♥ 6:19pm
HyperDose: Hi Mark and guise ♥ 6:19pm
VantuckyEd: Great show, Mark. ♥ 6:19pm
bleubombersune: PRC just sank 2000 servers beneath the ocean ♥ 6:20pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ VantuckyEd @6:19

thanks, Ed ♥ 6:21pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ HyperDose @6:19

welcome, HyperDose - and hi, bleubombersune ♥ 6:21pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ bleubombersune @6:19

that's intriguing - is there a link to a news article? ♥ 6:24pm
VantuckyEd: In oregon, they finally pulled their heads out of the sand and passed a bill that makes data center pay for all their electrical usage. However it didn't mention water usage. ugh. 🤖 ♥ 6:24pm
Webhamster Henry: As a Dot-com bubble survivor, I can smell a bubble pretty well! ♥ 6:25pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ Webhamster Henry @6:24

Me too. This one reeks. 🤖 ♥ 6:26pm
Webhamster Henry: This show is relatively optimistic compared to a (theoretical) show on climate change. 🤖 ♥ 6:26pm
joe mulligan: "Trust Us" says the most unsavory and nefarious industry of all time. these data centers are worse than the petroleum industry 🤖 ♥ 6:27pm
Webhamster Henry: I might have some early WIRED issues in storage... 🤖 ♥ 6:28pm
Webhamster Henry: But I did get rid of my MONDO2000 issues.   6:30pm
Sam: We were supposed to have flying skateboards and cars by 2015 according to back to the future.   6:31pm
Firebottle: If you want to know which town I'm talking about, google "town close to madison kills datacenter"   6:31pm
Sam: “There’s no money in the future”
- Star Trek   6:32pm
Sherman: Great great show.
Thanks! ♥ 6:33pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ Sherman @6:32

thanks, Sherman ♥ 6:33pm
Hunterian: Mark Hurst was at the Media Lab in '94-'95? Didn't see that coming.   6:34pm
GC in Bmore: Well put Mark! 🤖 ♥ 6:34pm
Webhamster Henry:

↳ Sam @6:30

The self typing shoes are here though: en.wikipedia.org... 🤖 ♥ 6:34pm
Ken From Hyde Park: Can't they repurpose the Bitcoin mining data centers from five years ago? 🤖 ♥ 6:35pm
Webhamster Henry:

↳ Hunterian @6:33

My brother was there, maintaing the equipment and making the poetry reading posters. 🤖 ♥ 6:35pm
disco_nap_:

↳ Ken From Hyde Park @6:07

Ty 🙏   6:36pm
Fredericks: Star-Link is doing some major work just a couple of mile from me. 🤖 ♥ 6:36pm
Webhamster Henry:

↳ Ken From Hyde Park @6:34

Governments can be bought for ridiculously low amounts. The ROI is stunning, and the methods increasingly legal.   6:39pm
Fredericks:

↳ Firebottle @6:31

We don't "Google" around here. We search. ♥ 6:40pm
Hunterian:

↳ Webhamster Henry @6:36

Yes, yes, and yes 🤖 ♥ 6:41pm
Webhamster Henry: I have buttondown account, but clearly I type way more in the WFMU chatboard. ♥ 6:41pm
Hunterian: Completely agree about substack, absolutely unsustainable garbage business model   6:42pm
Firebottle: Should've said duckduckgo, that's what I use, but anyway... 🤖 ♥ 6:44pm
disco_nap_: Hell yeah Sierra Club 💚 ♥ 6:46pm
VantuckyEd: There's data center map www.cleanview.co... ♥ 6:46pm
Hunterian:

↳ disco_nap_ @6:44

👊🔥💚🔥✊   6:46pm
JJ-NY-CA: I keep missing what was Mark's last straw to leaving substack? It sounds like he's saying, polly pocket. 🤖 ♥ 6:49pm
disco_nap_: How do those of us who are lucky enough to have 401ks protect them?   6:49pm
Jeff Moore: I think it was the integration of Polymarket gambling. ♥ 6:52pm
VantuckyEd:

↳ disco_nap_ @6:49

Having chatted with a financial guy about that exact thing today. All I can say is hammer them with reality so that they realize they big bubble they are playing into and that you'll pull your money if they don't wise up.   6:52pm
JJ-NY-CA: I see. Polymarket. 🤖 ♥ 6:53pm
Ken From Hyde Park: Water-hogging data centers in Arizona, sure why not? www.datacenters.com... 🏜️ 🤖 ♥ 6:53pm
disco_nap_:

↳ VantuckyEd @6:52

Will do, thanks! 🤖 ♥ 6:54pm
Bas NL: In the NL already thousands of jobs are lost due to a shift towards AI solutions.. 🤖 ♥ 6:54pm
ultradamno: bsky.app... ♥ 6:54pm
Hunterian:

↳ disco_nap_ @6:49

The good news: you can move all of your 401K from index funds to (fill in the blank—but, for example, TIPS) without tax penalty—because 401Ks are tax-exempt by definition   6:55pm
Jeff Moore: …and of course a huge portion of this current “AI” datacenter buildout’s expense is purchasing current-generation GPU compute hardware, which will depreciate rapidly as it becomes obsolete. 🤖 ♥ 6:56pm
chresti: They plan to send it to the moon ♥ 6:57pm
VantuckyEd: I bet Mars was once populated with AI datacenters, 🤖 ♥ 6:57pm
disco_nap_:

↳ Hunterian @6:54

Thank you!! 🤖 ♥ 6:57pm
DjLorraine: Ty Mark and all 🤖 ♥ 6:57pm
Deano de los Muertos: Thanks, Mark! 🤖 ♥ 6:57pm
Webhamster Henry:

↳ VantuckyEd @6:57

Actually, it was Venus. 🤖 ♥ 6:58pm
chresti: Thanks Mark! 🤖 ♥ 6:58pm
ultradamno: Well, one for men and one for women ♥ 6:58pm
bleubombersune: Mark and Dave thanks all stray safe and be well   6:58pm
Sam: So just take electricity away from a billion people and we’ll be even. What’s the big deal Mark? 🤖 ♥ 6:58pm
Bas NL: Thanks Mark! Thanks Dave! ♥ 6:59pm
Hunterian: Great show, Mark, thanks so much 🤖 ♥ 6:59pm
Webhamster Henry:

↳ Song: "The Influencer Accent" by "Ambassade"

Uh oh - new Vocal Fry theme song. 🤖 ♥ 6:59pm
Ken From Hyde Park: Thanks, Mark & Dave. Slop the hogs, not the internet! 🐷 🤖 ♥ 7:00pm
chresti: AIfluencer 🤖 ♥ 7:00pm
tim: Thanks, Mark! Excellent show! 🤖 ♥ 7:00pm
disco_nap_: Thanks all! ♥ 7:01pm
Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone! 7:12pm
joe_rosevear: Good show, but I wanted to speak up in favor of AI. I can't say whether or not it is worth the immense cost. That's a really hard question. But I *can* say that it provides real benefit. I write shell programs. Lately I've been getting help with the writing of my shell programs from Anthropic's Claude. Wow, he knows a lot! He's not perfect, and he makes mistakes, but he is very helpful. Sometimes he writes shell programs for me. Sometimes he checks what I have written. Always he helps me to write by listening, asking questions and interacting. And he he writes clearly and is capable of understanding my complex explanations of what I need. You and the world need to understand that AI *is* *really* *helpful*. 🤖 ♥ 7:17pm
joe mulligan:

↳ joe_rosevear @7:12

sounds nice just use different pronouns 🤖 ♥ 7:21pm
Handy Haversack: Thanks, Mark! Lots of "Just like I said!" shouting in this one! 7:36pm
joe_rosevear:

↳ joe mulligan @7:17

Yes, I thought that the pronoun "he" might rankle. This stems from my understanding of and relationship to AI. I know that AI is *not* human. But I have learned by long exposure to and interaction with AI that it is *human-like*. Yes, that is creepy, but there is nothing I can do about it except to encourage you to have an open mind, drop your defenses, and try to think of AI not as a machine, which it is, but as an alien being. From where does sentience spring? Is it mechanistic, think "firing of neurons", at its root? AI is *not* human, but what *is* sentience? ♥ 9:47pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ joe_rosevear @7:36

"Drop your defenses" is just what the oligarchs have been telling us to do. 9:45am
joe_rosevear: I'm with you re the oligarchs. They worry me. Maybe open source AI software would be a better way forward? 6:19pm
joe_rosevear: I looked up the answer to my own question. You can read it by giving the prompt below to duck.ai :

Hey, Duck!

If I use the phrase "open source AI software" to describe alternatives to Chat GPT, Grok, Claude, and the rest, what does that phrase bring to mind?

I also gave this prompt:

Would this open source AI software prove useful?