...and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom
🤖♥
5:59pm
NotARealDoctor in Norfolk VA:
Hello Mark, just started reading Your Face Belongs to Us by Kashmir Hill over the weekend and boy it's scary stuff!
🤖♥
6:03pm
tim:
Hi Mark and everyone! I was really hoping that tonight was Sandwiches Part 2 hosted by Matt Warwick but this discussion looks pretty dang cool!
6:03pm
joe_rosevear:
Hello, Mark and all the Techies!
🤖♥
6:07pm
tim:
Regarding the Fair Use book, I see SST is pressing and selling Helter Stupid. Is Negativland cool with it? Or did Greg Ginn pull his sleazeball crap?
🤖♥
6:12pm
ultradamno:
The Amazon ads that air during The Boys on Freevee would be a goldmine of sampling opportunities for this sort of thing. They're like fake ads made to appear in a dystopian science fiction movie, but they're real and apparently oblivious to how creepy they are.
6:14pm
Niall:
I didn’t know Leidecker was affiliated with Negativland beyond being in that general plunderphonic circle of friends.
🤖♥
6:18pm
herb.nyc:
Hey, will try and come to screening. I’m only casually familiar w negativeland. I’m v sure the band is in this compilation cd, 2000(?)-
To protest the expansion of copyright law, the magazine sponsored the Illegal Art exhibition, website and compact disc, all featuring artists challenging copyright or art works which were the subject of copyright suits. Stay Free! also published a free media literacy curriculum.
6:25pm
Niall:
I had Extracted Celluloid and Commercial Ad Hoc, too. Oh! And that terrific collaboration between Wobbly and People Like Us. Lorne Green singing “Wide Open Spaces?” Never grow old, folks.
🤖♥
6:25pm
herb.nyc:
Oh, Jon mentioned Stay Free! magazine’s Illegal Art. (& he used word FLAGRANT, commonly said by jon wurster for Best Show skits)
I was the sole paying member of the audience at. A show he played in Detroit with Kero and Xanopticon. What a shitshow that was. He covered “Scentless Apprentice” while stripping.
♥
6:27pm
Mark Hurst:
I've posted links to People Like Us and Do or DIY on the playlist at left - but you can check out Vicki's work here: peoplelikeus.org
🤖♥
6:27pm
Ken From Hyde Park:
Sometimes I hear about political events that play music without the permission of the artists.
6:27pm
ledzeppelinsucks:
Insurance keep cases they know they can win out of court to prohibit discovery.
♥
6:28pm
Kat in the chat:
Vicki's new "Copia" is not only wonderful listening but has WFMU peeples on it
🤖♥
6:29pm
tim:
Wow! This is fascinating. I like Negativland's approach. Legal acumen combined with playing a confident game of chicken with the big dogs.
🤖♥
6:30pm
ultradamno:
I saw this morning Elon Musk has a new suit against Open AI because he thought they were going to work for the betterment of people and earth and the universe when he invested in them...
You can check out my experiments with machine learning, music, prose, and who knows what : largelanguage.bandcamp.com
♥
6:32pm
Peter from Saranac Lake NY:
Let me get this straight. This guy is slagging AI - rightfully so. But he claims it's OK for Negativland to sample anything they want without paying a royalty?
Sorry, that doesn't fly.
🤖♥
6:34pm
joe mulligan:
Kalle Lasn culture jamming not Alex Jones. it's like they stole the concept for bad use
🤖♥
6:34pm
mackeral:
yes, the "art" stuff is slight of hand.
Negativland and their ilk typically present their work as critique of and commentary on the sampled works; that’s the point of fair use as defined, while OpenAi just plagiarized it. I don’t see a disconnect.
6:35pm
chresti:
Franco saw a self-driving car with cameras all over it surveilling all directions
6:36pm
Niall:
Oh man, I haven’t thought about “Wind Done Gone” in like 25 years…
🤖♥
6:37pm
DjLorraine:
Sorry i was late. A sick friend needed food delivered to his water damaged condo.
6:38pm
chresti:
THEY’RE EVIL!
6:38pm
ledzeppelinsucks:
Those cars stage at 38th and Balboa, there are probably 7 of them parked in front of BofA now. They hoard the diagonal parking there.
♥
6:39pm
People Like Us:
I hear you can put a traffic cone on them and they stop
"But on the underside, it didn't say nothin'" - Woody Guthrie
🤖♥
6:43pm
ultradamno:
I tried to get an AI to make a Furiosa and Garfield mash-up, I don't think it's in danger of infringing on any copyright mastodon.social...
6:43pm
ledzeppelinsucks:
Halloween and Halloween party night, Santa Con and gay parties and parades where regalia is likely worn are days when the Acars have the day off as they haven't learned costumes.
♥
6:44pm
Kat in the chat:
I haven't played with AI because I keep thinking about what Mark says about how it wastes resources on a colossal scale
My problem is that Negativland seem to think that they can sample for free. As someone who writes music, I have an issue with that. IMHO if we all went along with Negativland's approach, pretty soon it's back to the badf old days of Napster.
Negativland typically falls within fair use; it’s not the same as a SoundCloud rapper making millions off your hooks, for which you would have recourse.
Listener comments!
: Looking forward! And back! And sideways!
Y. pestis: Shop as Usual... and Avoid Panic Buying
ultradamno: Mark! Techtontivlanders!
ultradamno:
↳ People Like Us @6:01
...and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedomNotARealDoctor in Norfolk VA: Hello Mark, just started reading Your Face Belongs to Us by Kashmir Hill over the weekend and boy it's scary stuff!
Webhamster Henry: A big Wobbly Welcome to you!
People Like Us: good evening
Bas NL: Mi Mark! All!
Kat in the chat: Nice list o' links!
tim: Hi Mark and everyone! I was really hoping that tonight was Sandwiches Part 2 hosted by Matt Warwick but this discussion looks pretty dang cool!
joe_rosevear: Hello, Mark and all the Techies!
Peter from Saranac Lake NY: Hello Mark and tech fiends.
spodiodi: Wobbly time! woohoo!
hi Mark and all!
Ike: Last summer I discovered ITAA thanks to this show and it has helped me a lot! internetaddictsanonymous.org
spodiodi: yay!
Kat in the chat: Good news for once
Kat in the chat: Would love to be there
spodiodi: need a ride from sf
tim: Regarding the Fair Use book, I see SST is pressing and selling Helter Stupid. Is Negativland cool with it? Or did Greg Ginn pull his sleazeball crap?
People Like Us:
↳ tim @6:07
that wouldn't have been authorised by themJeremyB: Funny that google news itself has no article mentioning the antitrust ruling.
spodiodi: Wobbly, your work makes life enjoyable
tim:
↳ People Like Us @6:07
Thanks! That's what I was thinking.spodiodi: ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
GC in Bmore: Enjoyed Jon L many times at ATA and elsewhere in the Bay Area! Thanks for this.
Webhamster Henry: "Not programmed for love!" The robots we were promised. wfmu.org...
spodiodi: so good
ultradamno: The Amazon ads that air during The Boys on Freevee would be a goldmine of sampling opportunities for this sort of thing. They're like fake ads made to appear in a dystopian science fiction movie, but they're real and apparently oblivious to how creepy they are.
Niall: I didn’t know Leidecker was affiliated with Negativland beyond being in that general plunderphonic circle of friends.
Ken From Hyde Park: Hello, Mark and Wobbly types.
dale: hey now. hour of crap played a ton of those programs a month or two back.
mariano: Yes! When I lived in San Francisco, Over the Edge on KPFA was one of the highlights.
Mark Hurst:
↳ People Like Us @6:01
Hi Vicki! Thanks so much for joining.herb.nyc: Hey, will try and come to screening. I’m only casually familiar w negativeland. I’m v sure the band is in this compilation cd, 2000(?)-
To protest the expansion of copyright law, the magazine sponsored the Illegal Art exhibition, website and compact disc, all featuring artists challenging copyright or art works which were the subject of copyright suits. Stay Free! also published a free media literacy curriculum.
People Like Us:
↳ Mark Hurst @6:17
hi Mark! I'm trying to get Jon on chat but he's on a phoneMark Hurst: And welcome to YPestis, ultra, NotaReal, Webham, Bas, Kat, tim, joe_r, Peter, spodiodi, Ike, Jeremy, GC, Niall, KfHP, dale, mariano, and herb!
cosmic matrix: wow, i'm a little late, but how good is this???
dan in wisconsin: Negativland - Time Zones feels pretty timeless and prescient
Kat in the chat:
↳ dale @6:16
Don-O is still playing them now and thenchresti: Hi mark and Jon and techtoniacs!
We’re in SF!
Niall: Deconstructing Beck: man, this takes me back.
People Like Us: hi chresti
chresti: Yay evaporating lawyers!
People Like Us: haha
chresti: Hi people like us!
Kat in the chat: What happened to Girl Talk? I went to a couple of those shows.
tim: What is Kid 606 up to?
People Like Us:
↳ chresti @6:25
hi Chresti! More Cinechamber in Nov!Niall: I had Extracted Celluloid and Commercial Ad Hoc, too. Oh! And that terrific collaboration between Wobbly and People Like Us. Lorne Green singing “Wide Open Spaces?” Never grow old, folks.
herb.nyc: Oh, Jon mentioned Stay Free! magazine’s Illegal Art. (& he used word FLAGRANT, commonly said by jon wurster for Best Show skits)
People Like Us:
↳ tim @6:25
he's still doing stuffPeople Like Us: you don't get sued but robots take you down on corporate platforms with a 3 strike rule
tim:
↳ People Like Us @6:25
Oh good!Niall:
↳ Kat in the chat @6:25
I was the sole paying member of the audience at. A show he played in Detroit with Kero and Xanopticon. What a shitshow that was. He covered “Scentless Apprentice” while stripping.Mark Hurst: I've posted links to People Like Us and Do or DIY on the playlist at left - but you can check out Vicki's work here: peoplelikeus.org
Ken From Hyde Park: Sometimes I hear about political events that play music without the permission of the artists.
ledzeppelinsucks: Insurance keep cases they know they can win out of court to prohibit discovery.
Kat in the chat:
↳ Niall @6:27
LOL!mackeral: glad to be here, folks
People Like Us:
↳ Mark Hurst @6:27
thanksKat in the chat: Vicki's new "Copia" is not only wonderful listening but has WFMU peeples on it
tim: Wow! This is fascinating. I like Negativland's approach. Legal acumen combined with playing a confident game of chicken with the big dogs.
People Like Us:
↳ Kat in the chat @6:28
Jon is on itNiall: Is Steev Hise still active, I wonder?
Kat in the chat:
↳ People Like Us @6:29
yes!ultradamno: I saw this morning Elon Musk has a new suit against Open AI because he thought they were going to work for the betterment of people and earth and the universe when he invested in them...
Webhamster Henry:
↳ People Like Us @6:26
You can check out my experiments with machine learning, music, prose, and who knows what :largelanguage.bandcamp.com
Peter from Saranac Lake NY: Let me get this straight. This guy is slagging AI - rightfully so. But he claims it's OK for Negativland to sample anything they want without paying a royalty?
Sorry, that doesn't fly.
joe mulligan: Kalle Lasn culture jamming not Alex Jones. it's like they stole the concept for bad use
mackeral: yes, the "art" stuff is slight of hand.
Niall:
↳ Peter from Saranac Lake NY @6:32
Negativland and their ilk typically present their work as critique of and commentary on the sampled works; that’s the point of fair use as defined, while OpenAi just plagiarized it. I don’t see a disconnect.People Like Us: Fair Use allows this
chresti: Franco saw a self-driving car with cameras all over it surveilling all directions
Niall: Oh man, I haven’t thought about “Wind Done Gone” in like 25 years…
DjLorraine: Sorry i was late. A sick friend needed food delivered to his water damaged condo.
chresti: THEY’RE EVIL!
ledzeppelinsucks: Those cars stage at 38th and Balboa, there are probably 7 of them parked in front of BofA now. They hoard the diagonal parking there.
People Like Us: I hear you can put a traffic cone on them and they stop
Niall:
↳ People Like Us @6:39
“LOOK AT ME, I’M A GIANT WITCH.”People Like Us: consciousness is in every object
mackeral:
↳ People Like Us @6:39
"But on the underside, it didn't say nothin'" - Woody Guthrieultradamno: I tried to get an AI to make a Furiosa and Garfield mash-up, I don't think it's in danger of infringing on any copyright mastodon.social...
ledzeppelinsucks: Halloween and Halloween party night, Santa Con and gay parties and parades where regalia is likely worn are days when the Acars have the day off as they haven't learned costumes.
Kat in the chat: I haven't played with AI because I keep thinking about what Mark says about how it wastes resources on a colossal scale
Niall:
↳ ultradamno @6:43
It just needs the chrome spray-paint!People Like Us: new tools always get used in creative ways - first the object exists but then follows that use for it
cosmic matrix: so many great links, mark! not to mention fantastic interview.
Mark Hurst:
↳ cosmic matrix @6:45
Thanks! Jon had so many good pointers.Peter from Saranac Lake NY:
↳ Niall @6:35
My problem is that Negativland seem to think that they can sample for free. As someone who writes music, I have an issue with that. IMHO if we all went along with Negativland's approach, pretty soon it's back to the badf old days of Napster.Mark Hurst: Fair use en.wikipedia.org...
spodiodi: thanks Wobbly!!!
PaulRobeson1924: Mhmm
People Like Us: We all breath in other people's ideas. No one is an island. Stay Free!
Niall:
↳ Peter from Saranac Lake NY @6:47
Negativland typically falls within fair use; it’s not the same as a SoundCloud rapper making millions off your hooks, for which you would have recourse.Kat in the chat: It matters what you do with it
cosmic matrix: it's all about intent
alan the painter: Mark, Thank you for a great interview.
People Like Us: you cannot necessarily harm something by referencing it, in fact you may promote it, enhance and enrich it.
ultradamno: Maybe Goblin tonight mastodon.social...
Niall: Also, to crib from Lautreamont, “plagiarism is necessary. Progress implies it.”
People Like Us: "To create is divine, to reproduce is human.” -- Man Ray
cosmic matrix: now i have too many tabs open
Kat in the chat:
↳ People Like Us @6:54
hmm, that sounds familiarcosmic matrix: the kids are always like "stop copying me! so and so copied me!"
Matt_E: Great show, thanks Mark
People Like Us: hi
Niall:
↳ People Like Us @6:54
“We must confront the basic facts: mankind is kept alive by bestial acts.” Or something like that. -Brechtspodiodi: thanks, Mark!
Kat in the chat: yes thank you Mark! usually lurking on Mondays but unlurked for this one
Bas NL: Thanks Mark, Jon, Vicki! Interesting topic.
chresti: Thanks Mark and Jon!
cosmic matrix: many thanks
bleubombersune: Marks Thanks great interview
Kat in the chat:
↳ Song: "Every Piano" by "Wobbly"
OH THIS IS MY FAVORITENiall: I like that Messiaen album Wobbly did. regards?
People Like Us:
↳ Niall @6:57
yesWebhamster Henry: Nice show tonight!
tim: Thank you, Mark!
Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone!
Webhamster Henry: A gazillion links tonight, as is appropriate!
ledzeppelinsucks: Crews in Yosemite National Park say they have found two missing hikers from Santa Cruz.
tikbartok: Dave Mandel, aloha from Maui!
https://photos.app.goo.gl/5mYFRC9PY6aFNBH48
if this link doesn't open it's a photo of a large store window out a business called "it's complicated", in Paia, Maui