Listener comments!

♥ 8/4 6:01pm
: Looking forward! And back! And sideways! ♥ 3:18pm
Y. pestis: Shop as Usual... and Avoid Panic Buying 🤖 ♥ 5:47pm
ultradamno: Mark! Techtontivlanders! 🤖 ♥ 5:48pm
ultradamno:

↳ People Like Us @6:01

...and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom 🤖 ♥ 5:59pm
NotARealDoctor in Norfolk VA: Hello Mark, just started reading Your Face Belongs to Us by Kashmir Hill over the weekend and boy it's scary stuff! 🤖 ♥ 6:00pm
Webhamster Henry: A big Wobbly Welcome to you! ♥ 6:01pm
People Like Us: good evening 🤖 ♥ 6:02pm
Bas NL: Mi Mark! All! ♥ 6:02pm
Kat in the chat: Nice list o' links! 🤖 ♥ 6:03pm
tim: Hi Mark and everyone! I was really hoping that tonight was Sandwiches Part 2 hosted by Matt Warwick but this discussion looks pretty dang cool! 6:03pm
joe_rosevear: Hello, Mark and all the Techies! ♥ 6:04pm
Peter from Saranac Lake NY: Hello Mark and tech fiends. 6:04pm
spodiodi: Wobbly time! woohoo!

hi Mark and all!

♥ 6:04pm
Ike: Last summer I discovered ITAA thanks to this show and it has helped me a lot! internetaddictsanonymous.org 6:05pm
spodiodi: yay! ♥ 6:05pm
Kat in the chat: Good news for once ♥ 6:06pm
Kat in the chat: Would love to be there 6:07pm
spodiodi: need a ride from sf 🤖 ♥ 6:07pm
tim: Regarding the Fair Use book, I see SST is pressing and selling Helter Stupid. Is Negativland cool with it? Or did Greg Ginn pull his sleazeball crap? ♥ 6:07pm
People Like Us:

↳ tim @6:07

that wouldn't have been authorised by them 🤖 ♥ 6:07pm
JeremyB: Funny that google news itself has no article mentioning the antitrust ruling. 6:08pm
spodiodi: Wobbly, your work makes life enjoyable 🤖 ♥ 6:09pm
tim:

↳ People Like Us @6:07

Thanks! That's what I was thinking. 6:10pm
spodiodi: ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️   6:11pm
GC in Bmore: Enjoyed Jon L many times at ATA and elsewhere in the Bay Area! Thanks for this. 🤖 ♥ 6:11pm
Webhamster Henry: "Not programmed for love!" The robots we were promised. wfmu.org... 6:12pm
spodiodi: so good 🤖 ♥ 6:12pm
ultradamno: The Amazon ads that air during The Boys on Freevee would be a goldmine of sampling opportunities for this sort of thing. They're like fake ads made to appear in a dystopian science fiction movie, but they're real and apparently oblivious to how creepy they are. 6:14pm
Niall: I didn’t know Leidecker was affiliated with Negativland beyond being in that general plunderphonic circle of friends. 🤖 ♥ 6:16pm
Ken From Hyde Park: Hello, Mark and Wobbly types. ♥ 6:16pm
dale: hey now. hour of crap played a ton of those programs a month or two back. ♥ 6:16pm
mariano: Yes! When I lived in San Francisco, Over the Edge on KPFA was one of the highlights. ♥ 6:17pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ People Like Us @6:01

Hi Vicki! Thanks so much for joining. 🤖 ♥ 6:18pm
herb.nyc: Hey, will try and come to screening. I’m only casually familiar w negativeland. I’m v sure the band is in this compilation cd, 2000(?)-

To protest the expansion of copyright law, the magazine sponsored the Illegal Art exhibition, website and compact disc, all featuring artists challenging copyright or art works which were the subject of copyright suits. Stay Free! also published a free media literacy curriculum.

♥ 6:18pm
People Like Us:

↳ Mark Hurst @6:17

hi Mark! I'm trying to get Jon on chat but he's on a phone ♥ 6:18pm
Mark Hurst: And welcome to YPestis, ultra, NotaReal, Webham, Bas, Kat, tim, joe_r, Peter, spodiodi, Ike, Jeremy, GC, Niall, KfHP, dale, mariano, and herb! ♥ 6:20pm
cosmic matrix: wow, i'm a little late, but how good is this??? 6:22pm
dan in wisconsin: Negativland - Time Zones feels pretty timeless and prescient ♥ 6:22pm
Kat in the chat:

↳ dale @6:16

Don-O is still playing them now and then   6:23pm
chresti: Hi mark and Jon and techtoniacs!
We’re in SF! 6:23pm
Niall: Deconstructing Beck: man, this takes me back. ♥ 6:23pm
People Like Us: hi chresti   6:24pm
chresti: Yay evaporating lawyers! ♥ 6:24pm
People Like Us: haha   6:25pm
chresti: Hi people like us! ♥ 6:25pm
Kat in the chat: What happened to Girl Talk? I went to a couple of those shows. 🤖 ♥ 6:25pm
tim: What is Kid 606 up to? ♥ 6:25pm
People Like Us:

↳ chresti @6:25

hi Chresti! More Cinechamber in Nov! 6:25pm
Niall: I had Extracted Celluloid and Commercial Ad Hoc, too. Oh! And that terrific collaboration between Wobbly and People Like Us. Lorne Green singing “Wide Open Spaces?” Never grow old, folks. 🤖 ♥ 6:25pm
herb.nyc: Oh, Jon mentioned Stay Free! magazine’s Illegal Art. (& he used word FLAGRANT, commonly said by jon wurster for Best Show skits) ♥ 6:25pm
People Like Us:

↳ tim @6:25

he's still doing stuff ♥ 6:26pm
People Like Us: you don't get sued but robots take you down on corporate platforms with a 3 strike rule 🤖 ♥ 6:26pm
tim:

↳ People Like Us @6:25

Oh good! 6:27pm
Niall:

↳ Kat in the chat @6:25

I was the sole paying member of the audience at. A show he played in Detroit with Kero and Xanopticon. What a shitshow that was. He covered “Scentless Apprentice” while stripping. ♥ 6:27pm
Mark Hurst: I've posted links to People Like Us and Do or DIY on the playlist at left - but you can check out Vicki's work here: peoplelikeus.org 🤖 ♥ 6:27pm
Ken From Hyde Park: Sometimes I hear about political events that play music without the permission of the artists.   6:27pm
ledzeppelinsucks: Insurance keep cases they know they can win out of court to prohibit discovery. ♥ 6:28pm
Kat in the chat:

↳ Niall @6:27

LOL! 🤖 ♥ 6:28pm
mackeral: glad to be here, folks ♥ 6:28pm
People Like Us:

↳ Mark Hurst @6:27

thanks ♥ 6:28pm
Kat in the chat: Vicki's new "Copia" is not only wonderful listening but has WFMU peeples on it 🤖 ♥ 6:29pm
tim: Wow! This is fascinating. I like Negativland's approach. Legal acumen combined with playing a confident game of chicken with the big dogs. ♥ 6:29pm
People Like Us:

↳ Kat in the chat @6:28

Jon is on it 6:29pm
Niall: Is Steev Hise still active, I wonder? ♥ 6:29pm
Kat in the chat:

↳ People Like Us @6:29

yes! 🤖 ♥ 6:30pm
ultradamno: I saw this morning Elon Musk has a new suit against Open AI because he thought they were going to work for the betterment of people and earth and the universe when he invested in them... 🤖 ♥ 6:30pm
Webhamster Henry:

↳ People Like Us @6:26

You can check out my experiments with machine learning, music, prose, and who knows what :
largelanguage.bandcamp.com ♥ 6:32pm
Peter from Saranac Lake NY: Let me get this straight. This guy is slagging AI - rightfully so. But he claims it's OK for Negativland to sample anything they want without paying a royalty?

Sorry, that doesn't fly.

🤖 ♥ 6:34pm
joe mulligan: Kalle Lasn culture jamming not Alex Jones. it's like they stole the concept for bad use 🤖 ♥ 6:34pm
mackeral: yes, the "art" stuff is slight of hand. 6:35pm
Niall:

↳ Peter from Saranac Lake NY @6:32

Negativland and their ilk typically present their work as critique of and commentary on the sampled works; that’s the point of fair use as defined, while OpenAi just plagiarized it. I don’t see a disconnect. ♥ 6:35pm
People Like Us: Fair Use allows this   6:35pm
chresti: Franco saw a self-driving car with cameras all over it surveilling all directions 6:36pm
Niall: Oh man, I haven’t thought about “Wind Done Gone” in like 25 years… 🤖 ♥ 6:37pm
DjLorraine: Sorry i was late. A sick friend needed food delivered to his water damaged condo.   6:38pm
chresti: THEY’RE EVIL!   6:38pm
ledzeppelinsucks: Those cars stage at 38th and Balboa, there are probably 7 of them parked in front of BofA now. They hoard the diagonal parking there. ♥ 6:39pm
People Like Us: I hear you can put a traffic cone on them and they stop 6:39pm
Niall:

↳ People Like Us @6:39

“LOOK AT ME, I’M A GIANT WITCH.” ♥ 6:39pm
People Like Us: consciousness is in every object 🤖 ♥ 6:40pm
mackeral:

↳ People Like Us @6:39

"But on the underside, it didn't say nothin'" - Woody Guthrie 🤖 ♥ 6:43pm
ultradamno: I tried to get an AI to make a Furiosa and Garfield mash-up, I don't think it's in danger of infringing on any copyright mastodon.social...   6:43pm
ledzeppelinsucks: Halloween and Halloween party night, Santa Con and gay parties and parades where regalia is likely worn are days when the Acars have the day off as they haven't learned costumes. ♥ 6:44pm
Kat in the chat: I haven't played with AI because I keep thinking about what Mark says about how it wastes resources on a colossal scale 6:44pm
Niall:

↳ ultradamno @6:43

It just needs the chrome spray-paint! ♥ 6:45pm
People Like Us: new tools always get used in creative ways - first the object exists but then follows that use for it ♥ 6:45pm
cosmic matrix: so many great links, mark! not to mention fantastic interview. ♥ 6:46pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ cosmic matrix @6:45

Thanks! Jon had so many good pointers. ♥ 6:47pm
Peter from Saranac Lake NY:

↳ Niall @6:35

My problem is that Negativland seem to think that they can sample for free. As someone who writes music, I have an issue with that. IMHO if we all went along with Negativland's approach, pretty soon it's back to the badf old days of Napster. ♥ 6:50pm
Mark Hurst: Fair use en.wikipedia.org... 6:51pm
spodiodi: thanks Wobbly!!! ♥ 6:51pm
PaulRobeson1924: Mhmm ♥ 6:51pm
People Like Us: We all breath in other people's ideas. No one is an island. Stay Free! 6:51pm
Niall:

↳ Peter from Saranac Lake NY @6:47

Negativland typically falls within fair use; it’s not the same as a SoundCloud rapper making millions off your hooks, for which you would have recourse. ♥ 6:52pm
Kat in the chat: It matters what you do with it ♥ 6:52pm
cosmic matrix: it's all about intent ♥ 6:52pm
alan the painter: Mark, Thank you for a great interview. ♥ 6:52pm
People Like Us: you cannot necessarily harm something by referencing it, in fact you may promote it, enhance and enrich it. 🤖 ♥ 6:52pm
ultradamno: Maybe Goblin tonight mastodon.social... 6:53pm
Niall: Also, to crib from Lautreamont, “plagiarism is necessary. Progress implies it.” ♥ 6:54pm
People Like Us: "To create is divine, to reproduce is human.” -- Man Ray ♥ 6:54pm
cosmic matrix: now i have too many tabs open ♥ 6:54pm
Kat in the chat:

↳ People Like Us @6:54

hmm, that sounds familiar ♥ 6:55pm
cosmic matrix: the kids are always like "stop copying me! so and so copied me!" ♥ 6:55pm
Matt_E: Great show, thanks Mark ♥ 6:55pm
People Like Us: hi 6:56pm
Niall:

↳ People Like Us @6:54

“We must confront the basic facts: mankind is kept alive by bestial acts.” Or something like that. -Brecht 6:56pm
spodiodi: thanks, Mark! ♥ 6:56pm
Kat in the chat: yes thank you Mark! usually lurking on Mondays but unlurked for this one 🤖 ♥ 6:56pm
Bas NL: Thanks Mark, Jon, Vicki! Interesting topic.   6:56pm
chresti: Thanks Mark and Jon! ♥ 6:56pm
cosmic matrix: many thanks ♥ 6:56pm
bleubombersune: Marks Thanks great interview ♥ 6:57pm
Kat in the chat:

↳ Song: "Every Piano" by "Wobbly"

OH THIS IS MY FAVORITE 6:57pm
Niall: I like that Messiaen album Wobbly did. regards? ♥ 6:57pm
People Like Us:

↳ Niall @6:57

yes 🤖 ♥ 6:58pm
Webhamster Henry: Nice show tonight! 🤖 ♥ 6:58pm
tim: Thank you, Mark! ♥ 6:58pm
Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone! 🤖 ♥ 6:59pm
Webhamster Henry: A gazillion links tonight, as is appropriate!   6:59pm
ledzeppelinsucks: Crews in Yosemite National Park say they have found two missing hikers from Santa Cruz.   7:02pm
tikbartok: Dave Mandel, aloha from Maui!
https://photos.app.goo.gl/5mYFRC9PY6aFNBH48

if this link doesn't open it's a photo of a large store window out a business called "it's complicated", in Paia, Maui