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Techtonic with Mark Hurst | WFMU

"Muskism" authors Quinn Slobodian and Ben Tarnoff: Techtonic with Mark Hurst When is it OK to use AI?: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Julie Scelfo, founder of Mothers Against Media Addiction (MAMA): Techtonic with Mark Hurst Andrew Guthrie Ferguson, author, "Your Data Will Be Used Against You": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Starlink and Kessler Syndrome, feat. astronomer Samantha Lawler: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Cindy Cohn, author, "Privacy's Defender": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Evan Selinger and Albert Fox Cahn, authors, "Move Slow and Upgrade" from Apr 6, 2026 Dystopia update: good news edition from Mar 30, 2026 Janet Vertesi, founder of the Opt Out Project from Mar 23, 2026 A visit to Repair Cafe El Barrio from Mar 16, 2026 Marathon week 2 w/cohost Jesse Jarnow from Mar 9, 2026 Marathon week 1 w/cohost station manager Ken Freedman from Mar 2, 2026 Celebrating 400 episodes of Techtonic from Feb 23, 2026 Chris Gilliard on Amazon’s admission that Ring spies on us from Feb 16, 2026 Peter Dear ("The World As We Know It") and how we interpret AI from Feb 9, 2026 AI is spreading where it doesn't belong from Feb 2, 2026 Peter Schmidt on the book "Attensity" by the Friends of Attention from Jan 26, 2026 Paul Bradley Carr, author, "The Confessions" from Jan 19, 2026 Lora Kolodny from CNBC on Grok's sexualized images from Jan 12, 2026 Ken Freedman and Mark discuss the year ahead from Jan 5, 2026 Tim Wu, author, "The Age of Extraction" from Dec 29, 2025 The Ghost of Christmas Tech Anxieties - Sara Clemens and Stu Horvath fill in, with guest Adam Allsuch Boardman from Dec 22, 2025 The first annual Creepy Awards from Dec 15, 2025 Noah McCormack from The Baffler: "We used to read things in this country" from Dec 8, 2025 Amateur radio is a superpower: Thomas Witherspoon from Dec 1, 2025 Citizens are being forced to pay for Big Tech data centers, feat. Pat Garofalo from Nov 24, 2025 How low can the tech oligarchs go? from Nov 17, 2025 Paul Mozur on the spread of data centers from Nov 10, 2025 Aram Sinnreich, co-author, "The Secret Life of Data" from Nov 3, 2025 Widening inequality and Big Tech surveillance, feat. Dan Currell from Oct 27, 2025 Filmmaker Amanda Hanna-McLeer on the Luddite renaissance from Oct 20, 2025 The protest against smartphones, with Logan Lane from Oct 13, 2025 AI and surveillance keep spreading: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Megan Greenwell, author, "Bad Company: Private Equity and the Death of the American Dream": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Glenn Adamson, author, "A Century of Tomorrows" from Sep 22, 2025 Joseph Weizenbaum warned us about AI 50 years ago (feat. Faine Greenwood): Techtonic with Mark Hurst Milestones for Big Tech... and Techtonic: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Cory Doctorow, author and journalist: Techtonic with Mark Hurst If/Then/Else - Sara Clemens and Stu Horvath fill in, with guest Brendan Keogh: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Adam Becker, author, "More Everything Forever": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Three emerging dystopias: money, water, and truth: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Duncan Moench on "soylent screens" and producerism: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Ed Park, author, "An Oral History of Atlantis": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Daniel Solove, author, "On Privacy and Technology": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Burn Hollywood Burn - Will AI save the movies? Dan Morfitt fills in with guest John Ashbrook: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Compulsory surveillance and other threats: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Lori Emerson, author, "Other Networks": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Unveiling our new theme song by Kirk Pearson, and Big Tech alternatives: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Matt Warwick fills in for Techtonic with Co-Host HurstBot: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Emily M. Bender and Alex Hanna, authors, "The AI Con": Techtonic with Mark Hurst David Greenwood, author, "The Cloud Intern": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Surveillance scholar Chris Gilliard on Facebook's spy glasses: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Discussing "Careless People" by Facebook whistleblower Sarah Wynn-Williams: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Sybil Derrible, author, "The Infrastructure Book": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Dan Morfitt and Mark Hurst discuss dystopian movies: Techtonic with Mark Hurst The Defunding of Public Radio with Jesse Walker, Uri Berliner and Sue Matters: Techtonic with Mark Hurst John Warner, author, "More Than Words": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Sue-Lin Wong and online scams: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Emergency surveillance update: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Liz Pelly, author, "Mood Machine": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Ben Snyder, author, "Spy Plane": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Marathon week 2 w/cohost Matt Warwick: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Marathon week 1 w/cohost station manager Ken Freedman: Techtonic with Mark Hurst AI and the future of war – with "Flash Wars" director Daniel Wunderer: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Nick Couldry, author, "The Space of the World": Techtonic with Mark Hurst August Lamm: you don't need a smartphone: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Supervillains in tech – with Greg Epstein, Chris Gilliard, and Jim Starlin: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Welcome to the oligarchy: on Big Tech's government takeover: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Kirk Pearson, author, "Electronic Music From Scratch": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Stone carvers Chris Pellettieri and Arissa Ramoutar: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Ken Freedman and Mark Hurst listen to AI: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Andrew Smith, author, "Devil in the Stack": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Guest host Don Fleming: Musical Tech: Naughty or Nice?: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Our year of surveillance: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Arvind Narayanan, author, "AI Snake Oil": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Nicole Kobie, author, "The Long History of the Future": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Technology we're thankful for, from listeners: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Astronomer Samantha Lawler on Musk's space junk: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Guest host Station Mgr Ken interviews David Suisman on music and the military: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Dystopia update: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Members of the Luddite Club: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Christopher Brown, author, "A Natural History of Empty Lots": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Yaroslav Trofimov, author, "Our Enemies Will Vanish": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Silkie Carlo, director, Big Brother Watch: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Tim Schwab, author, "The Bill Gates Problem": Techtonic with Mark Hurst What if no one wants AI?: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Helen Phillips, author, "HUM": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Even more devices are spying on you: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Carl Öhman, author, "The Afterlife of Data": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Guest host Alan on Rancho Mastatal : Techtonic with Mark Hurst Paula Bialski, author, "Middle Tech": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Google antitrust decision party: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Jon Leidecker, aka Wobbly, on Negativland and fair use: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Tech and the sandwich generation: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Guest host Brian D. on disinformation with Kirsten Eddy and Alex Mahadevan: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Generative AI and the "cesspool internet" – with Jason Koebler: Techtonic with Mark Hurst How it started, how it's going: revisiting the warnings of the past: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Carissa Véliz on digital ethics: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Byron Tau, author, "Means of Control": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Listener questions: Techtonic with Mark Hurst
Webb Keane, author, "Animals, Robots, Gods": Techtonic with Mark Hurst
2025-08-27 · via Techtonic with Mark Hurst | WFMU

Favoriting Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from August 25, 2025 Favoriting

Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. In our shift to a digital future, we need alternatives to Big Tech. Homepage: techtonic.fm

Monday 6 - 7pm (EDT) | On WFMU | 91.1, 90.1, 91.9 FM & wfmu.org

iTunes Feed Also available as an MP3 podcast. More info at our Podcast Central page.

<-- Previous playlist | Back to Techtonic with Mark Hurst playlists | Next playlist -->


Upcoming events:

Mon. Jun 1st, 6pm - 7pm: Ben Recht, author, "The Irrational Decision" (More info...)

Playlist image Favoriting

Today: Webb Keane, author, “Animals, Robots, Gods”

AI, robots, and other technologies are raising some thorny ethical questions. Is it OK for people to become attached to robot pets? Or to have a funeral service for a robot when it “dies”? How much authority should people assign to chatbots? Webb Keane dives into these and more in his book “Animals, Robots, Gods: Adventures in the Moral Imagination.”

Animals, Robots, Gods: Adventures in the Moral Imagination, by Webb Keane, published by Princeton University Press

Webb Keane at U. Michigan

Why we should fear the AI godbot (op-ed in the Spectator, by Webb Keane and Scott Shapiro, July 27, 2023):

AI is made by humans and can be constrained by humans. We should not give AI divine authority over human dilemmas. Humans are morally accountable for their actions. As agonising as some ethical issues are, we cannot outsource them to snippets of code. AI will only become godlike if we make it so.

Could an AI Barbie Stunt the Emotional Growth of a Generation? (IEEE, Aug 21, 2025): “A partnership between OpenAI and Mattel raises sobering questions.”

Mattel, the world’s largest toy company, has partnered with OpenAI to make that a reality. In June, the companies announced a collaboration to “bring a new dimension of AI-powered innovation and magic to Mattel’s iconic brands.” . . .

Children, especially in early developmental stages, are acutely sensitive to tone, timing, and emotional mirroring. Children playing with AI toys will believe they’re being understood, when in fact, the system is only predicting plausible next words.

We’re at a point with AI where LLMs are affecting adults in profound and unexpected ways, sometimes triggering mental health crises or reinforcing false beliefs or dangerous ideas. OpenAI, to its credit, has hired forensic psychiatrists to study how ChatGPT affects users emotionally. This is uncharted technology, and we adults are still learning how to navigate it. Should we really be exposing children to it?

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PAST EPISODES: techtonic.fm lists recent Techtonic shows.

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Artist Track Images Approx. start time
  Webb Keane, author, “Animals, Robots, Gods: Adventures in the Moral Imagination”
Kirk Pearson  Theme from Techtonic   Favoriting

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  Mark's intro  

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  Interview with Webb Keane  

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0:03:17 (MP3 | Pop-up)
  Mark's comments  

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0:43:18 (MP3 | Pop-up)
Timothy Clover  Trolley Car Line   Favoriting

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0:55:30 (MP3 | Pop-up)

Listener comments!

Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 5:53pm
: Mark! Techtonines!
  6:00pm
David (in London): Evening Mark and all Technoids here gathered.
  6:02pm
malĥerbo (nl): Evening Mark and y’all
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm
Peter from Saranac Lake NY: Hello Mark and fellow technophobes.
  6:03pm
kevlicki: I’ve remembered to listen in, in real time!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:04pm
ultradamno: sarabizarro.medium.com...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:04pm
Bas NL: Hi Mark! Hi all!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:04pm
Deano de los Muertos: Hey Mark and Techtachyons
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm
Mark Hurst: Hi ultra, DiL, malĥerbo, Peter from Saranac Lake, kevlicki, Bas, Deano - welcome!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:07pm
Folsom: hi mark
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:08pm
Webhamster Henry: Hi listeners!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:09pm
tim: Hi Mark and Webb! Intriguing topic tonight.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:10pm
chresti: Hi Mark and techtonicians!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:10pm
Mark Hurst: Hi Folsom, webham, tim, chresti! Thanks for joining.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:17pm
Ken From Hyde Park: Hello, Mark and trolliers!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:18pm
Webhamster Henry: Who tied those people up on the trolley track in the first place? WHO IS THE REAL ENEMY?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:18pm
Folsom: The answer to the trolley problem is dual track drifting. i.kym-cdn.com...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:19pm
ultradamno: What is the likelihood a trolley drive would know them? Unless a super villain did it just for him.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:20pm
DjLorraine: Hello
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:20pm
ultradamno: ...trolley *driver, that is
  6:26pm
sensisio: Thanks TECHTONIC!! 🖥 🖱 📱 🤳 ☠️😶
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:26pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ DjLorraine @6:20

Welcome, DjL!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:26pm
ultradamno: Wait...Grok doesn't think I have a razor sharp wit? Noooooooo
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:27pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ sensisio @6:26

👍
  6:27pm
malĥerbo (nl): The answer to the trolley problem is not to throw the switch. Ever. That way you stay a witness. Throwing the switch makes you complicit.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:29pm
ultradamno:

↳ ultradamno @6:26

The last South Park was largely about this, how the chat gpt bot would come back with 'what a neat idea...etc' no matter what was thrown at it.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:29pm
Webhamster Henry: This conversation relates to the decades-long desire for big business to pin the blame for a decision they want to promote of a computer result - a result with no signature, just "science says". That's the modern version of "God told me to".
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:31pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ Webhamster Henry @6:29

True. AI has been described as an "accountability sink"
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:32pm
Peter from Saranac Lake NY: Mark, this might be the best interview I've heard on your program. Thank you.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:33pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ Peter from Saranac Lake NY @6:32

Thanks, Peter!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:33pm
Bas NL: Robots should end up in the Cloud.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:33pm
ultradamno: I can't believe that on some level they do not know this is happening because they do not want to clean up after an actual animal
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:38pm
Jeff Moore: What do the assembled company think about being polite (saying please and even thank you, for instance) to cybernetic user interfaces?

On the one hand... it's unnecessary and indeed silly to be formally polite with software.

On the other hand... I like to maintain my habits of politeness, whether I'm interacting with actual humans or some program designed to mimic humanity. I don't want to fall into the habit of issuing raw peremptory commands when I'm giving instructions in natural language.

Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:38pm
ultradamno: Was it about a year ago that some maker of virtual companions for kids (not unlike the thing they put M3gan into at one point in the sequel) and the company went out of business, discontinuing the service leaving the parents to explain the virtual friend's "death" to the kids...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:43pm
ultradamno:

↳ ultradamno @6:38

Moxie www.axios.com...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:45pm
Jeff Moore:

↳ Jeff Moore @6:38

...and at 18:44, this exact question is brought up by the guest.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:45pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ Jeff Moore @6:45

You called it
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:47pm
Webhamster Henry:

↳ ultradamno @6:43

Think of all the dead Tomagotchis!
  6:47pm
malĥerbo (nl): Thanks Webb!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:47pm
Jeff Moore:

↳ Mark Hurst @6:45

Mentioned, but not much closer to resolved.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:49pm
sinner: Wow. Great show. Spellbound.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:50pm
Jeff Moore:

↳ Webhamster Henry @6:47

😭
  6:51pm
malĥerbo (nl): Ordered the 📕
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:52pm
Ken From Hyde Park: Furby25©️
  6:54pm
yippie: japanese for trolley is "Chin Chin Densha"
  6:55pm
malĥerbo (nl): Thanks again Mark, loved this interview. Don’t forget not to underestimate children (or the elderly) people.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:55pm
joe mulligan: effective altruism is another way of saying tech oligarchs can act as dictators/monarchs
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:56pm
chresti: Thanks Mark!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
Deano de los Muertos: Thanks Mark!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
Bas NL: Thanks Mark! Thanks Webb!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone!
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