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Techtonic with Mark Hurst | WFMU

Evan Selinger and Albert Fox Cahn, authors, "Move Slow and Upgrade": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Dystopia update: good news edition: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Janet Vertesi, founder of the Opt Out Project: Techtonic with Mark Hurst A visit to Repair Cafe El Barrio: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Marathon week 2 w/cohost Jesse Jarnow: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Marathon week 1 w/cohost station manager Ken Freedman: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Celebrating 400 episodes of Techtonic: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Chris Gilliard on Amazon’s admission that Ring spies on us: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Peter Dear ("The World As We Know It") and how we interpret AI: Techtonic with Mark Hurst AI is spreading where it doesn't belong: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Peter Schmidt on the book "Attensity" by the Friends of Attention: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Paul Bradley Carr, author, "The Confessions": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Lora Kolodny from CNBC on Grok's sexualized images: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Ken Freedman and Mark discuss the year ahead: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Tim Wu, author, "The Age of Extraction": Techtonic with Mark Hurst The Ghost of Christmas Tech Anxieties - Sara Clemens and Stu Horvath fill in, with guest Adam Allsuch Boardman: Techtonic with Mark Hurst The first annual Creepy Awards: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Noah McCormack from The Baffler: "We used to read things in this country": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Amateur radio is a superpower: Thomas Witherspoon: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Citizens are being forced to pay for Big Tech data centers, feat. Pat Garofalo: Techtonic with Mark Hurst How low can the tech oligarchs go?: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Paul Mozur on the spread of data centers: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Aram Sinnreich, co-author, "The Secret Life of Data": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Widening inequality and Big Tech surveillance, feat. Dan Currell: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Filmmaker Amanda Hanna-McLeer on the Luddite renaissance: Techtonic with Mark Hurst The protest against smartphones, with Logan Lane: Techtonic with Mark Hurst AI and surveillance keep spreading: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Glenn Adamson, author, "A Century of Tomorrows": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Joseph Weizenbaum warned us about AI 50 years ago (feat. Faine Greenwood): Techtonic with Mark Hurst Milestones for Big Tech... and Techtonic: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Cory Doctorow, author and journalist: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Webb Keane, author, "Animals, Robots, Gods": Techtonic with Mark Hurst If/Then/Else - Sara Clemens and Stu Horvath fill in, with guest Brendan Keogh: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Adam Becker, author, "More Everything Forever": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Three emerging dystopias: money, water, and truth: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Duncan Moench on "soylent screens" and producerism: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Ed Park, author, "An Oral History of Atlantis": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Daniel Solove, author, "On Privacy and Technology": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Burn Hollywood Burn - Will AI save the movies? Dan Morfitt fills in with guest John Ashbrook: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Compulsory surveillance and other threats: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Lori Emerson, author, "Other Networks": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Unveiling our new theme song by Kirk Pearson, and Big Tech alternatives: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Matt Warwick fills in for Techtonic with Co-Host HurstBot: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Emily M. Bender and Alex Hanna, authors, "The AI Con": Techtonic with Mark Hurst David Greenwood, author, "The Cloud Intern": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Surveillance scholar Chris Gilliard on Facebook's spy glasses: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Discussing "Careless People" by Facebook whistleblower Sarah Wynn-Williams: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Sybil Derrible, author, "The Infrastructure Book": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Dan Morfitt and Mark Hurst discuss dystopian movies: Techtonic with Mark Hurst The Defunding of Public Radio with Jesse Walker, Uri Berliner and Sue Matters: Techtonic with Mark Hurst John Warner, author, "More Than Words": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Sue-Lin Wong and online scams: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Emergency surveillance update: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Liz Pelly, author, "Mood Machine": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Ben Snyder, author, "Spy Plane": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Marathon week 2 w/cohost Matt Warwick: Techtonic with Mark Hurst AI and the future of war – with "Flash Wars" director Daniel Wunderer: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Nick Couldry, author, "The Space of the World": Techtonic with Mark Hurst August Lamm: you don't need a smartphone: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Supervillains in tech – with Greg Epstein, Chris Gilliard, and Jim Starlin: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Welcome to the oligarchy: on Big Tech's government takeover: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Kirk Pearson, author, "Electronic Music From Scratch": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Ken Freedman and Mark Hurst listen to AI: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Andrew Smith, author, "Devil in the Stack": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Our year of surveillance: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Arvind Narayanan, author, "AI Snake Oil": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Nicole Kobie, author, "The Long History of the Future": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Technology we're thankful for, from listeners: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Astronomer Samantha Lawler on Musk's space junk: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Guest host Station Mgr Ken interviews David Suisman on music and the military: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Dystopia update: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Members of the Luddite Club: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Christopher Brown, author, "A Natural History of Empty Lots": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Yaroslav Trofimov, author, "Our Enemies Will Vanish": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Silkie Carlo, director, Big Brother Watch: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Tim Schwab, author, "The Bill Gates Problem": Techtonic with Mark Hurst What if no one wants AI?: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Helen Phillips, author, "HUM": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Even more devices are spying on you: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Carl Öhman, author, "The Afterlife of Data": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Guest host Alan on Rancho Mastatal : Techtonic with Mark Hurst Paula Bialski, author, "Middle Tech": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Google antitrust decision party: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Jon Leidecker, aka Wobbly, on Negativland and fair use: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Tech and the sandwich generation: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Guest host Brian D. on disinformation with Kirsten Eddy and Alex Mahadevan: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Generative AI and the "cesspool internet" – with Jason Koebler: Techtonic with Mark Hurst How it started, how it's going: revisiting the warnings of the past: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Carissa Véliz on digital ethics: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Byron Tau, author, "Means of Control": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Listener questions: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Mark Schatzker and "Food, Inc. 2": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Matt Warwick guest hosts Techtonic: What's the best robot?: Techtonic with Mark Hurst We should all switch to Linux: Techtonic with Mark Hurst What's eating Google?: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Chris Gilliard on what AI is really for: Techtonic with Mark Hurst "Data Grab" by Ulises Mejias and Nick Couldry: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Michael Shelley on AI-generated music: Techtonic with Mark Hurst Eve Herold, author, "Robots and the People Who Love Them": Techtonic with Mark Hurst Richard Polt, author, "The Typewriter Revolution": Techtonic with Mark Hurst
Megan Greenwell, author, "Bad Company: Private Equity and the Death of the American Dream": Techtonic with Mark Hurst
Hugo · 2025-09-30 · via Techtonic with Mark Hurst | WFMU

Listener comments!

  5:53pm
: Longtime listener, love the show. I have a question: you keep saying get off of Gougle at the end of every show. I wish to do that. But how can I do that on my S24 Cellular device? This thing even updated without my permission. Thanks again and keep the show going! Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 5:56pm
ultradamno: Mark! Techtonsolation Angels!   6:00pm
David (in London): Evening Mark and all Technoids here gathered. Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:01pm
Handy Haversack: Mark and the Techyons! Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:02pm
PaulRobeson1925: Dream Baby, dream Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:02pm
Folsom: Hi Mark! Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm
melinda: hello everyone   6:04pm
wimpy: echoing hugo, if anyone has a good alternative to gmail, please let me know Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:04pm
Peter from Saranac Lake NY: Good evening Mark and technophobes. Looking forward to this interview. Although private equity is better known as vulture capitalists. Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:06pm
Ken From Hyde Park: Using quantum computing to compute financial decisions. Isn't that just another way to wind up broke? Yes, but faster! Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:06pm
bravedelay:

↳ wimpy @6:04

To Hugo as well - Mark has a good deep-dive on big-tech alternatives to gmail and other ubiquitous services in this show:

wfmu.org...

Avatar 🤖 6:07pm
herb.nyc: Private equity, sounds so rich rich upper class elite Avatar 6:07pm
VantuckyEd: excellent topic, Mark! I've been dealing with a very sick dog and god damn Private euity owns most of the vet's in the area, who hose pet owners. Avatar 6:07pm
MIster Mark: losses and externalities are *always* paid for by the unwitting public and the private capitalists ALWAYS prof$$$t that's just the way it is Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:07pm
bravedelay:

↳ herb.nyc @6:07

Private equity, lack of diversity and exclusion Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:08pm
ultradamno: SAGbot www.yahoo.com... Avatar 6:08pm
MIster Mark:

↳ MIster Mark @6:07

bay bee Avatar 6:09pm
MIster Mark:

↳ MIster Mark @6:08

DON'T LIKE IT ?!? MOVE back 2 where U came from you ingrate   🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:10pm
SeaCreature: Oh dear. I write about this for a living. Strap in it’s gonna be ugly. Avatar 6:10pm
MIster Mark: 2 and 20
points
percentage
pounds of your flesh

it's
all
the
same
extraction

Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:10pm
tom tom the pipers son: i believe one can draw a line from hedgefunding to private equity Avatar 6:10pm
VantuckyEd: Private Equity are also buying up all the funeral homes chains across the country. Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm
Mark Hurst: Hi Hugo, ultra, DiL, Handy, PaulR, Folsom, melinda, wimpy, Peter, KfHP, bravedelay, herb, VantuckyEd, Mr Mark, SeaCreature, tom tom - welcome!   6:11pm
MK: Hello from my iMac G5! :) Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:11pm
Handy Haversack:

↳ wimpy @6:04

I switched to Fastmail a few years ago, and it was one of the best decisions of my life.

See https:// switching.software/ and specifically https: //switching.software/replace/gmail/ . (I added spaces to those URLs because the chatboard's hyperlink converter can't handle the .software exchange.)

Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ Hugo @5:53

Hugo - as @bravedelay pointed out - this is the playlist to look into - wfmu.org... Avatar 6:11pm
MIster Mark:

↳ MIster Mark @6:10

Dominance

submission

Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:11pm
Ken From Hyde Park: This story sounds like what happened with Red Lobster. Avatar 6:11pm
VantuckyEd:

↳ Handy Haversack @6:11

I use fastmail too and it's great! Avatar 6:12pm
MIster Mark:

↳ MIster Mark @6:11

'White' supremacy

2025

Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:12pm
tom tom the pipers son:

↳ tom tom the pipers son @6:10

and a line from algorithms and capital from cradle to maturation Avatar 6:12pm
MarciB:

↳ Handy Haversack @6:11

I use FM for my business and Proton for personal. It was a good move! Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:12pm
Peter from Saranac Lake NY:

↳ Ken From Hyde Park @6:11

Exactly. Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:13pm
PaulRobeson1925: Toys R US example is what Bernie Sanders is referring to when he says the “economy” is rigged Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:13pm
chresti: Hi Mark and techtonians! Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:13pm
PaulRobeson1925:

↳ PaulRobeson1925 @6:13

That scenario Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:13pm
bravedelay:

↳ Handy Haversack @6:11

super helpful, thanks Handy! Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:13pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ chresti @6:13

Hi chresti and MarciB, welcome :) Avatar 6:13pm
MIster Mark: Crapitalism is cancer
stop the growth
invert the pyramid Avatar 6:15pm
VantuckyEd: Hey, Mark, you should follow up this show with and interview with Yanis Varoufakis on his book "techno-fuedalism" Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:15pm
Handy Haversack:

↳ VantuckyEd @6:11

And there's a Gmail import tool to ease the transition.   6:15pm
Sam: Toys R Us was toast anyway. They would have gone belly up and gotten nothing. At least the equity firms paid them some money, right? Or am I not getting it? Avatar 6:17pm
VantuckyEd:

↳ Handy Haversack @6:15

oooooo! I gotta use that to finally kill my gmail account. Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:18pm
Handy Haversack: Gotta start chopping things but will be listening!   6:18pm
Sam: No hospital should be for-profit, period. Avatar 6:18pm
MIster Mark: Private Equity

Public Enemy

Avatar 6:19pm
VantuckyEd: Than again, that gmail is only for spam so i never look at it. Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:19pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ Handy Haversack @6:18

chop chop Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:19pm
Handy Haversack:

↳ VantuckyEd @6:17

I deleted everything from Gmail after converting but did not kill the account entirely -- it still has a forwarding service and an auto-reply that explains my reasons for Getting Off Google.   6:19pm
yippie: Toys R Us might actually be Russian because they love their backward R Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:19pm
Handy Haversack: Alas for Deadspin. And Football Outsiders, too. Avatar 6:19pm
MIster Mark:

↳ MIster Mark @6:18

Chuck D whistling past Anthony Blinken's graveyard Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:20pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ yippie @6:19

Megan explains the backward R in the book - interesting history of the company Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:21pm
PaulRobeson1925: Who should “own” a nursing home?
Who should make America? What is American Culture Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:22pm
DjLorraine: Hello Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:22pm
chris in the redwoods: i can't remember why, but private equity *wants* to tank the companies they buy. listening to see if my feeble memory can be refreshed.
hi, Mark! hi, gang! Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:23pm
tom tom the pipers son: what private equity does to businesses our government is doing to the country as a whole Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:23pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ chris in the redwoods @6:22

yep Megan explained it earlier in the interview - loading the company down with debt and selling off assets   6:23pm
Harry Corvair: Deadspin, alas. Great in its heyday. Much missed. Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:23pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ DjLorraine @6:22

hi DjL and chris in the redwoods! Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:23pm
tom tom the pipers son:

↳ tom tom the pipers son @6:23

liquidation Avatar 6:24pm
MIster Mark: Remember your television news late 70s/80s 5 minutes devoted to local opinion advocacy? Avatar 6:24pm
MIster Mark:

↳ MIster Mark @6:24

clips from Techtonic could be excellent PSA drops today Avatar 6:25pm
MIster Mark:

↳ MIster Mark @6:24

or Currents WFMU Saturday mornings   6:25pm
Sam: Givin’ birth just ain’t profitable enough! Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:25pm
tom tom the pipers son: the government is a private equity firm Avatar 6:26pm
VantuckyEd: Medivac???? eeek. those start at 10K per trip!   6:26pm
Marie in Chicago: IHere's a bit about some legislation that was proposed to curb private equity: https://www.warren.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/warren-lawmakers-renew-legislative-push-to-stop-private-equity-looting   6:28pm
Marie in Chicago: I heard that private equity has been buying out veterinary practices and that that is one of the reasons vet care has become so expensive Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:28pm
Threemoons 🌛🌝🌜: Excellent show so far. When my Stepdad needed a medvac thopter back in the day -- well over 20 years ago -- it was $7K and that was just what my Mom owed out of pocket on her insurance. Private equity firms are poison to what's left of any kind of industry in America   6:28pm
Sam: It’s really like the mafia. They have their fingers in everything. They break your windows so you’ll pay them for protection. Avatar 6:29pm
MIster Mark: You make money by exploiting humans below you in a meta multi-level marketing slavery scheme Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:29pm
chris in the redwoods: where we're moving to in central Oregon, we pay the city about $150/yr for insurance for emergency ambulance and life flights. if used, there is no cost. Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:29pm
Peter from Saranac Lake NY: Mark, I think you can do multiple episodes on this topic.   6:31pm
compass: what was the name of the paper and author she described? Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:32pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ Peter from Saranac Lake NY @6:29

Interesting - I was thinking of doing another episode on a related topic... financialization, inequality, and how tech fits into that... Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:32pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ compass @6:31

The financialization of the American economy, by Greta Krippner (May 2005) - PDF link is on the playlist. Avatar 6:33pm
MIster Mark: Suffered woefully under a Milton Friedman acolyte professor freshman econ class Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:35pm
tom tom the pipers son: other people’s money? a lesson taught by musk and zuck... Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:39pm
Threemoons 🌛🌝🌜: PS the only thing that saved my Mom's butt when her district's 401K was flushed down the toilet by private equity was my Stepdad's military pension. Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:40pm
bravedelay: Dan Morfitt characterized it eloquently the other week on Wake - it's not a redistribution of wealth, it's money being taken out of circulation. Scraps are what's left, indeed Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:41pm
ultradamno: Well, they do kind of feel like if you can't afford to build a hospital then you don't deserve health care Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:42pm
PaulRobeson1925: Theories reflect their creators world view both as the world is and as the world should be.

Hospitals should be a place you go to get well, not a place understaffed that leaves the most vulnerable patients with bed sores and pressure wounds and oral thrush. A hospital should be A place to get well not a place that gives sedatives unnecessarily because they are understaffed and can’t be bothered change a patients diaper more than once in the morning and once in the evening and the nurses could care less about these transient people in the hospital they work at.

Leadership is so important.

Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:42pm
Peter from Saranac Lake NY:

↳ Mark Hurst @6:32

Mark, that would be very cool. I've been aware of vulture capital - oops, private equity firms - for some time. Just seems like this is a topic that merits additional episodes. Reading the financialization piece now. Thanks for everything you do. Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:44pm
PaulRobeson1925: can’t be bothered To* cut nails. “What do they do in the hospital? They don’t change diapers, they don’t get nails, they don’t do nothin’ in the hospital” Avatar 6:44pm
MIster Mark:

↳ bravedelay @6:40

gill o teens might spark some re-circulation Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:46pm
ultradamno:

↳ ultradamno @6:08

Tilly Norwood backlash variety.com...

"(we) want her to be the next Scarlett Johansson" variety.com...

Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:47pm
Ken From Hyde Park: Can I found a church Blessed Lady of Private Equity and acquire even more tax breaks? Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:47pm
ultradamno: ...of the Silicon Valley Norwoods, I'm guessing Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:47pm
PaulRobeson1925: What is a hospital for? Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:48pm
PaulRobeson1925:

↳ PaulRobeson1925 @6:47

What is America for? Avatar 6:48pm
MIster Mark:

↳ PaulRobeson1925 @6:47

bloodletting? Avatar 6:48pm
MIster Mark:

↳ MIster Mark @6:48

*blood leasing? Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:50pm
ultradamno: BLUE SKI Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:51pm
Threemoons 🌛🌝🌜: Thanks, Mark! Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:51pm
Handy Haversack: Thanks, Mark and Megan! Avatar 6:52pm
MIster Mark:

↳ ultradamno @6:50

lift passes prominently clipped to jacket zipper Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:54pm
Ken From Hyde Park: Private Equity Pork Belly Futures, a good name for a band. Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:55pm
ultradamno:

↳ ultradamno @6:47

www.tillynorwood.com Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:55pm
chresti: Thanks Mark and Megan! Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm
bleubombersune: Thanks Mark and Megan Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
Ken From Hyde Park: Thanks, Mark & Megan. Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
egould: Thanks Mark! Thanks Megan! Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
ultradamno:

↳ ultradamno @6:55

She takes selfies, even www.instagram.com...   6:58pm
?:

↳ tom tom the pipers son @6:23

tom tom, the two go hand in hand- the Citizens United case & subsequent "Governor Gifty" McDonnell case essentially legalized bribery of the federal political class. The Open For Business sign thus attracted big money to pols who'd rather keep their jobs & health care plans than do what's right. Obama was right in his SOTU address about what Citizens United would start. It did. Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
chresti: It was a bummer for sure jeez! Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
ultradamno:

↳ ultradamno @6:58

"Me taking 87 identical photos of trees like I’m about to start a nature blog. Let the girl have her moment"

"Not a girl" - Janet

Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone! Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
Micheal: Great show - thanks, Mark and Megan! Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:26pm
Bas NL: Thanks Mark! Thanks Megan!