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6:04pm
Wendy del Formaggio:
I'm psyched about this interview. I just added the book to my "order this for the library" list. I do non-fiction collection development at my library job.
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6:05pm
tom tom the pipers son:
i have, but just read intro to ....'eye of the master, a social history of a.i.' by matteo pasquinelli
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6:09pm
Mark Hurst:
Hi chresti, WtSG, tak, mistercaz, ultra, joe_r, tom tom, Deano, Wendy, newton, tim, Deb, Spikey, Peter, KfHP, MarciB, DjL, Sam, su, and Bas - glad you've joined us!
in intro pasquinelli gives the example of how labor like truck driving is not thought of in terms of intellligence yet when a.i. does it it is "intelligent" the author alslo cites "?someone?" who said that all activity/labor by hand takes as well as represents intelligence
6:20pm
joe_rosevear:
Hold on. Arvind said, "They don't have common sense." Begging your pardon, but this is AI. AI is *human-like* by design. I propose that it *may*, in fact have, common sense, at least to some small extent--an extent that is likely to grow.
6:26pm
Hugo (NL):
I was just redding a piece about D. Graham Burnett whose views are very interesting. About attention, and the monetasation of attention
6:26pm
Danny in Poughkeepsie:
The place I worked until April banned the use of AI in the coding of the systems we worked on
some guy looks like he's going to commit a crime, get them before they do... the near future reality of minority report
6:28pm
castor:
Regarding “common sense”, this is at least one aspect of the problem, known as the “frame problem” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_problem
6:28pm
Marie in Chicag0:
Another great topic and expert--thanks, Mark!
I just checked my library, 8 holds on one copy, may have to wait a while
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6:35pm
Wendy del Formaggio:
This link will tell you which libraries in and near Jersey City have "AI Snake Oil." If you live elsewhere, you can change the location on the page. search.worldcat.org...
GTFO! I had no idea. Yay!
Full disclosure: when I'm not being a super cool person on the WFMU chats, or hosting my own radio show, I'm a librarian at a public library here in Vermont.
"The GPT Era is Already Ending" Yeah, I was watching Bloomberg in the morning in a hotel back in May. Every single story/discussion/talking head had to mention AI. It was at that point I realized there was a lot of hype, and the charlatans were pumping the idiots for money. And that it had already busted. The charlatans knew, the idiots *still* haven't figured it out. It's busted.
I don't pretend to know, and don't speculate. I just know when something is overhyped. It's usually when the TV talking people can't stop talking about it.
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6:45pm
tom tom the pipers son:
the chimera of a.i. is a promise total safety, total convenience, de facto totality like an 'iron dome' which didn't exactly work out
6:50pm
biomurph:
It's really cart-before-the-horse-putting. Their medical diagnostic 'AI' should have to go through the most rigorous medical education like a dozen times at different schools, and then they have to set up a practice or work in a hospital, and then we'll see
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6:53pm
VantuckyEd:
added to my bookshop.org wishlist. Nice!
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6:53pm
dale:
....surprised they published his book.
6:55pm
joe_rosevear:
Yes, thank you Mark and Arvind!
6:56pm
wimpy:
Idk if anyones been keeping up with the news about the shooter today, but the guy they arrested had a gnarly back surgery so the ai could be very relevant to that
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6:56pm
tim:
But United's algorithm is right 10% of the time!
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6:56pm
VantuckyEd:
United has moved on to using Evicore - according to Propublicas report.
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6:57pm
VantuckyEd:
Evicore is even more nefarious
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6:57pm
egould:
Thanks Mark and Arvind. Interesting discussion.
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6:57pm
gauche knee:
Fantastic show, thank you Arvind & Mark! Will be using the public library & bookshop for AI snake oil just like I did for Delay Deny Defend.
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6:59pm
Ken From Hyde Park:
Thanks, Mark & Arvind. Surrogate President Musk will surely be pushing for AI to take over government functions real soon.
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6:59pm
mistercaz:
thanks very much. Will take a look at the book,& newsletter. Yes, let's avoid amazonian monopoly whenever possible.
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6:59pm
Bas NL:
We have the ongoing debacle of Dutch citizens being falsely accused of fraud with children tax benefits based on findings by wrong algorithms. Tens of thousands have be left in destitution and the matters has been in the open for years without a proper resolution.
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6:59pm
Mark Hurst:
Thanks, everyone, good comments! Have a good week.
Listener comments!
: Hi Mark and techtonicians!
Will thee SG OCNY: Good evening Mark Hurst and all!!!
tak: alo
mistercaz: Good Evening
ultradamno: Mark! Techtonicondas!
joe_rosevear: Hello, all!
Will thee SG OCNY: the design is still bad!
tom tom the pipers son: looking forward to this...thanks mark
Deano de los Muertos: Hey Mark, folx, and whatever big tech companies are spying on us!
Wendy del Formaggio: Mark! I get to listen live tonight. Yay!
newton: AI greetings
tim: Hey Mark! Snake Oil? I'm all ears when I'm not cheering loudly!
newton: I am here only until my meeting starts
Deb from California: Hi Techtonic Folks. :)
.
joe_rosevear:
↳ Deb from California @6:02
Hi, Deb!Spikey BXL: Hi Mark, luddites
Peter from Saranac Lake NY: Hello Mark and techies!
Ken From Hyde Park: Greetings, Mark and seasonal mark-downs!
Wendy del Formaggio: I'm psyched about this interview. I just added the book to my "order this for the library" list. I do non-fiction collection development at my library job.
tom tom the pipers son: i have, but just read intro to ....'eye of the master, a social history of a.i.' by matteo pasquinelli
Spikey BXL: 🐍 oil
MarciB: Looking forward to this show!
Sam: I built a robot that’s sentient. At least that’s what he claims.
MarciB:
↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:04
I'm going to do the same!joe_rosevear:
↳ Sam @6:06
Yes, I claim I am sentient also.DjLorraine: Great topic. (Also, what's up with those large drones in the NE?)
Sam:
↳ joe_rosevear @6:07
Right? Who am I to judge?Bas NL: Hi Mark! Hey all!
su: wondering how long till a drone hits a satellite
joe_rosevear:
↳ Sam @6:08
My point, exactly!Mark Hurst: Hi chresti, WtSG, tak, mistercaz, ultra, joe_r, tom tom, Deano, Wendy, newton, tim, Deb, Spikey, Peter, KfHP, MarciB, DjL, Sam, su, and Bas - glad you've joined us!
Mark Hurst:
↳ DjLorraine @6:07
Thanks, DjL... what drones do you mean?Deb from California:
↳ Sam @6:08
Joe and Sam ... LOL ! #TRUEdale:
↳ DjLorraine @6:07
probably looking for the ceo killer with night vision.MarciB: "diffusion of responsibility" - that's one way of putting it!
tom tom the pipers son:
↳ tom tom the pipers son @6:05
in intro pasquinelli gives the example of how labor like truck driving is not thought of in terms of intellligence yet when a.i. does it it is "intelligent" the author alslo cites "?someone?" who said that all activity/labor by hand takes as well as represents intelligencemistercaz:
↳ dale @6:13
they may have got him, according to thee internets..Sam:
↳ dale @6:13
He’s in the housing projects in fuckin’ Boonton!Sam:
↳ Sam @6:14
That was a Sopranos reference.dale:
↳ mistercaz @6:14
yes - just curious if the drone sightings end now because of that. tonight will tell.tom tom the pipers son:
↳ tom tom the pipers son @6:13
pointing out a.i.'s prejudicial marketing in relation to labor/admin relationsFolsom: Mark, have you used Kagi search? I saw doctorow said he uses it.
Mark Hurst:
↳ Folsom @6:18
aware of it but haven't paid up to subscribeDjLorraine: apnews.com...
Mark Hurst:
↳ DjLorraine @6:19
thanksjoe_rosevear: Hold on. Arvind said, "They don't have common sense." Begging your pardon, but this is AI. AI is *human-like* by design. I propose that it *may*, in fact have, common sense, at least to some small extent--an extent that is likely to grow.
Webhamster Henry: I'm here for the snake oil!
Mark Hurst:
↳ joe_rosevear @6:20
The lack of common sense in AI has been the subject of research for years - decades, even. Well documented challenge in the field.joe_rosevear:
↳ Mark Hurst @6:21
So, is the cup empty, half-empty, or half-full?tom tom the pipers son: seems criminal justice system has "evolved" from mug shots to pre-crime
Ken From Hyde Park: Applicable: "The Worst Person in Tech 2024" voting is open
Not Ideal: It's a Google document — forms.gle...
Deb from California:
↳ joe_rosevear @6:20
Ummm ... I know a lot of people that don't have common sense. So ... the objection is ... ???Wendy del Formaggio:
↳ MarciB @6:06
yay!Hugo (NL): I was just redding a piece about D. Graham Burnett whose views are very interesting. About attention, and the monetasation of attention
Danny in Poughkeepsie: The place I worked until April banned the use of AI in the coding of the systems we worked on
Will thee SG OCNY:
↳ tom tom the pipers son @6:24
some guy looks like he's going to commit a crime, get them before they do... the near future reality of minority reportcastor: Regarding “common sense”, this is at least one aspect of the problem, known as the “frame problem” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_problem
Marie in Chicag0: Another great topic and expert--thanks, Mark!
joe_rosevear:
↳ Hugo (NL) @6:26
monetizationMark Hurst:
↳ Marie in Chicag0 @6:28
thanks, MarieVantuckyEd: Thank you for this show. As an illustrator I can't express enough how bad Gen AI is for so many artists.
Mark Hurst:
↳ VantuckyEd @6:29
Thanks. We need (human) illustrators!tom tom the pipers son:
↳ Will thee SG OCNY @6:27
i guess that was partially the (ab)use in the accumulation of mug shots alsotim: Alright! My local library has AI Snake Oil.
Will thee SG OCNY:
↳ tom tom the pipers son @6:31
truthMarciB: Interesting article in the Atlantic today -
"The GPT Era is Already Ending" . I haven't read it yet but am hopeful...
Wendy del Formaggio:
↳ tim @6:32
Thank you for supporting your local library.Folsom:
↳ tim @6:32
I just checked my library, 8 holds on one copy, may have to wait a whileWendy del Formaggio: This link will tell you which libraries in and near Jersey City have "AI Snake Oil." If you live elsewhere, you can change the location on the page. search.worldcat.org...
Webhamster Henry:
↳ MarciB @6:33
It's ending because a new Machine learning algorithm is going to take over!tim:
↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:33
My pleasure! 99% of my book reading is from the library. Physical books.Wendy del Formaggio:
↳ tim @6:36
<3tim:
↳ Folsom @6:34
2 holds at my library!tom tom the pipers son: so AI is like an voracious nitwit
Wendy del Formaggio:
↳ Folsom @6:34
Did you put a hold on it? With that much interest, your library's non-fiction collection development person may choose to order a second copy.Webhamster Henry: A teacher friend of mine has the students use AI , it will be in their future, but document how it's used.
tim:
↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:36
Full disclosure: when I'm not being super cool guy on the WFMU chats, I'm a library specialist at an academic library.Will thee SG OCNY: wanted ai to sense how dirty clothes or dishes are, not to be art or thought
Folsom:
↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:37
I put a hold on it, found out it's a digital copy, that works for me.Wendy del Formaggio:
↳ tim @6:38
GTFO! I had no idea. Yay!Full disclosure: when I'm not being a super cool person on the WFMU chats, or hosting my own radio show, I'm a librarian at a public library here in Vermont.
Wendy del Formaggio:
↳ Folsom @6:39
yay!tim:
↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:40
Nice!egould:
↳ MarciB @6:33
"The GPT Era is Already Ending" Yeah, I was watching Bloomberg in the morning in a hotel back in May. Every single story/discussion/talking head had to mention AI. It was at that point I realized there was a lot of hype, and the charlatans were pumping the idiots for money. And that it had already busted. The charlatans knew, the idiots *still* haven't figured it out. It's busted.Wendy del Formaggio:
↳ egould @6:40
hello, egould!joe_rosevear:
↳ egould @6:40
Well, what era is next?egould:
↳ joe_rosevear @6:42
Hi Wendy!VantuckyEd: My wife works for a major banking company and you should hear how her nitwit managers blab on about using AI.
Ken From Hyde Park: Sinister use of AI: medical insurance companies using it to find ways to deny patients of coverage.
egould:
↳ joe_rosevear @6:42
I don't pretend to know, and don't speculate. I just know when something is overhyped. It's usually when the TV talking people can't stop talking about it.joe_rosevear:
↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:41
I think I got your "Hi, Wendy!" from egould.egould:
↳ joe_rosevear @6:44
Hi Joe! :-)Wendy del Formaggio:
↳ joe_rosevear @6:44
I saw that and intercepted it. Thanks.tom tom the pipers son: the chimera of a.i. is a promise total safety, total convenience, de facto totality like an 'iron dome' which didn't exactly work out
VantuckyEd:
↳ Ken From Hyde Park @6:44
Oh yeh, Mark should do a show about Evicore.or EVILcore as doctors call them.joe_rosevear:
↳ egould @6:45
Yes, "Hi!"tim: This is a very validating conversation.
Deb from California:
↳ VantuckyEd @6:43
Hmmmm ... The use of a computer - - does not make the user "not a nitwit".MarciB: I have a young colleague who keeps raving about the self-driving cars in SF. It's boring!
VantuckyEd:
↳ Deb from California @6:47
OK I'll opt for twits :)joe_rosevear:
↳ VantuckyEd @6:47
How about, "Button Pushers?"egould:
↳ VantuckyEd @6:47
You got your nits, your twits, and your nitwits.biomurph: It's really cart-before-the-horse-putting. Their medical diagnostic 'AI' should have to go through the most rigorous medical education like a dozen times at different schools, and then they have to set up a practice or work in a hospital, and then we'll see
VantuckyEd:
↳ egould @6:49
Ha!joe_rosevear: You don't need to be a weatherman, to know which way the wind is blowing.
tim: Wow! Thanks Arvind and Mark! Great, great, great conversation!
Will thee SG OCNY: interesting chat, thank you Mark and Arvind!
Luigi Mangione: My favorite show !!
Bas NL: Thanks Mark! Thanks Arvind!
dale: top google result - 'princeton a.i. reserachers are some of the best in the world.'
Webhamster Henry: I also use Bookshop.org exclusively if I can't get it direct from the author!
chresti: Thanks Mark and Arvind!
VantuckyEd: added to my bookshop.org wishlist. Nice!
dale: ....surprised they published his book.
joe_rosevear: Yes, thank you Mark and Arvind!
wimpy: Idk if anyones been keeping up with the news about the shooter today, but the guy they arrested had a gnarly back surgery so the ai could be very relevant to that
tim: But United's algorithm is right 10% of the time!
VantuckyEd: United has moved on to using Evicore - according to Propublicas report.
VantuckyEd: Evicore is even more nefarious
egould: Thanks Mark and Arvind. Interesting discussion.
gauche knee: Fantastic show, thank you Arvind & Mark! Will be using the public library & bookshop for AI snake oil just like I did for Delay Deny Defend.
Wendy del Formaggio: Thank you, Mark and Arvind!
bleubombersune: Mark great interview . UHC rejection rate worse of all major Health Insurance Companies (32%) all stay safe and be well
tim: Thanks, Mark!
dale: lack of outrage or empathy for this ceo says so much.
Folsom: I like the line about life and death shouldn't be in the hands of people, it's the job of the AI programmed by the health industry.
Will thee SG OCNY: EPROM
Eraseable Programable Read Only Memory
Ken From Hyde Park: Thanks, Mark & Arvind. Surrogate President Musk will surely be pushing for AI to take over government functions real soon.
mistercaz: thanks very much. Will take a look at the book,& newsletter. Yes, let's avoid amazonian monopoly whenever possible.
Bas NL: We have the ongoing debacle of Dutch citizens being falsely accused of fraud with children tax benefits based on findings by wrong algorithms. Tens of thousands have be left in destitution and the matters has been in the open for years without a proper resolution.
Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone, good comments! Have a good week.
Mark Hurst:
↳ Bas NL @6:59
Yikes! Sounds like the British post office scandal!coelacanth∅: Thanks Mark