We derive the closed form Cramer-Rao bound (CRB) expressions for joint estimation of time delay and Doppler shift with unknown signals with possibly known structure. The results are especially useful for passive radar where direct path and reflected path signals are present. Time delay and Doppler shift estimation is an important fundamental tool in signal processing which has received extensive study for cases with known transmitted signals, but little study for unknown transmitted signals. The presented results generalize previous results for known transmitted signals and show how many looks from the direct path and the reflected path we need to derive an accurate joint estimation of time delay and Doppler shift. After analysis under a simple common signal-to-clutter-plus-noise ratio (SCNR) model with separated direct and reflected path signals, white clutter-plus-noise and line of sight propagation, extensions to cases with different direct and reflected path SCNRs, correlated clutter-plus-noise, nonseparated direct and reflected path signals and multipath propagation are discussed to support the utility of the CRB with unknown signals.