Logo text

[This story contains spoilers from the sixth episode of The Testaments, “Stadium.”]

The Testaments has delivered another Aunt Lydia backstory and halfway through the revelatory episode, The Handmaid’s Tale sequel series revealed the key to understanding the mystifying franchise character played by Ann Dowd. The moment comes in a scene between a pre-Gilead Lydia amid the totalitarian takeover and one of the men, Commander Judd (Charlie Carrick), who becomes a high-ranking leader in the fictional fascist government.

In the flashback scene, Lydia offers herself up as an asset to Commander Judd by asking that he toss aside her history — which includes that she is unmarried and had an abortion, a “form of person murder” now punishably by death, even retroactively,” says Judd — and elevate her as the head Aunt that she becomes in The Handmaid’s Tale, vowing to enforce Gilead’s religious views and train young women on how to become handmaids to bear children for infertile Gilead wives. The scene brings to life the major abortion secret that was revealed in Margaret Atwood‘s sequel novel of the same name, on which the show is based; Dowd says below that she learned about the abortion when reading the sequel novel, back when she was still filming The Handmaid’s Tale.

Then, in the most shocking moment in the flashback, Lydia agrees to kill her former colleague to prove her Gilead allegiance. Judd was only testing her — she pulls the trigger, and it’s a blank. But that colleague becomes her fellow Aunt Vidala (played by Mabel Li), and Vidala carries the trauma and resentment from that day throughout The Testaments.

It’s a monstrous moment, but it’s all explained by a key voiceover from Lydia during that scene between her and Judd when she says: “Surviving these men requires patience, and allies wherever you can find them.”

Viewers see at the end of this sixth episode that the voiceover comes from Lydia’s journals — her “testament” in this story. After vowing to be an ally of June’s (Elisabeth Moss) Mayday resistance movement at the end of The Handmaid’s Tale, Lydia has been secretly recording her thoughts and working behind the scenes in her allyship in The Testaments. How exactly? Viewers and even Dowd herself don’t have that full picture just yet.

“We’re talking about survival, and what Lydia does to survive,” says Dowd of what we learn in her backstory episode. “She makes the decision at the cost of maybe ending her colleague’s life. We learn a lot about Lydia. Not only is she going to be alive — she’s not going to be Aunt No. 6. She’s going to be Aunt No. 1, and she will find a way to do that.”

Below, Dowd and Li spoke to The Hollywood Reporter about the flashback and what it reveals about their present-day Aunt-ship. Also during this episode, the two Aunts referenced main protagonist Agnes (Chase Infiniti) and the fact that her mother is June (Moss). The women don’t say June by name, but they reference Agnes’ mother as being “not just any handmaid.” Dowd and Li also weigh in on the subtext in that moment below, and if it means Lydia and June could be in Mayday cahoots.

***

Mabel, did you chemistry read with Ann for the role of Aunt Vidala?

MABEL LI No. That would have been fun — and intimidating, because I’m a fan of Ann’s. I kind of wish I did.

When you were cast, had you read The Testaments and were you familiar with your character from the book?

LI I hadn’t read The Testaments yet when I got the part. I’d read The Handmaid’s Tale and was a fan of the show. But when I got the part, I read it immediately. It was such a great read. It was so useful and I soaked everything up, but then I also had to put it down and be like, “OK, I need to find her myself now.” Because in the book, Vidala is so filtered through other people’s perspectives. and so biased.

Ann, did you read the book before? As in, did you know that you were going to do The Testaments?

ANN DOWD Yes, I had a little inkling it was going to happen. [Writer’s note: Dowd revealed when Atwood told her about the sequel in THR’s Handmaid’s Tale oral history.]

Ann, I was going to ask you when you first read The Testaments.

DOWD We did the audio [for the book] quickly, so I read the book, of course, first.

What season of filming The Handmaid’s Tale was that?

DOWD Closer to the end. Maybe I knew beforehand. I was given little tips. Not exactly what it would be like, but, yes [that it was happening].

I know you were thrilled by Lydia’s backstory in The Handmaid’s Tale. So when you found out that you would get another backstory in this sequel series, what excited you most and what did you learn about her this time?

DOWD I was incredibly excited to do it. Because when you get down to it, what are we talking about here? We’re talking about survival, and what Lydia does to survive. She makes the decision at the cost of maybe ending her colleague’s life. We learn a lot about Lydia. Not only is she going to be alive — she’s not going to be Aunt No. 6. She’s going to be Aunt No. 1, and she will find a way to do that. We learn a lot about her character and her courage, so to speak. You might call it something else, but we see those parts of her very, very quickly.

How surprised were both of you when you saw that Lydia actually did pull the trigger and intended to kill Vidala for, as you say, her own survival?

DOWD Yes, yes. I could bring myself to finally do it. But it was very, very difficult. Just imagine being responsible for the life of someone else? Not just some stranger, but your colleague and friend. Oh, brutal. Absolutely brutal.

LI In the moment, it was shocking every time. Every time we did a take — and you do many, many takes — the shock never dissipated. It’s a huge thing to be prepared to kill your friend.

DOWD And how would you feel being in your position? You never said a word to me.

LI The resentment, the trauma. It’s so useful, because it does permeate our relationship in such a deep way in the whole show.

DOWD It’s always there.

It sets you two up as antagonists, but we didn’t understand why for the first half of the show until now. What was that like to play out?

LI It’s tough because Ann is really warm and cheeky. She is the cheekiest gal on set. And then I have to go to resenting her and knowing this was the person who almost killed my character. It’s hard, because you’re so warm!

DOWD Well, I will work on that. I’ll get that under control. No worries!

We’re seeing this new alliance forming now between Aunt Vidala and Judd in present day. Would you say that Vidala has been playing a long game? Did this opportunity just present itself, or do you think she was always looking to take Lydia down?

LI I think that subconsciously, because of the root of the trauma, she’s always wanted to get rid of Lydia. And I think when Commander Judd opens that door a crack, it awakens something in her. It probably reawakens the deep anger and betrayal. But it’s interesting because Vidala is still an Aunt and a woman in this world. She is still at the mercy of other people opening doors for her to be able to succeed and keep rising. She’s balancing a delicate power structure.

A major reveal in this backstory is that Aunt Lydia had an abortion when she was younger. When you read that in The Testament’s book, and you were still making The Handmaid’s Tale, did that influence how you were playing her?

DOWD I think she buried so much — when you make a decision just to survive, and whatever that’s going to take and what is in your past — you focus on the present so fiercely just to make sure you have a place in this world and it’s something you can live with. So I’m not sure. It’s interesting. I think she put that behind her as a mistake she made in her youth. Having sex and it not being protected, what was that all about? I don’t know that she carries it in a meaningful way through The Testaments.

If you are a viewer new to this world, who hasn’t seen The Handmaid’s Tale or read the books, you may not know Lydia’s real intentions until this episode, when you see that she’s writing and you’re starting to understand that she is working to do good on the side. Did you talk with creator Bruce Miller about that slow reveal?

DOWD I didn’t ask, and I love coming up with my own version of what the heck she’s been up to. That’s one of the changes she made when Handmaid’s ended and The Testaments began. She’s always paying attention. Always being alert. Nothing is getting by her. And when she takes her moments to secretly write [her thoughts] clear as a bell, she protects them and puts them away with the idea that, “I have time, and I can do whatever I need and want to do.” That gives me goosebumps to think of her in that position. It really does.

A very big question going into this show was if June would appear, and we found out that she does. Elisabeth Moss reprised the character in earlier episodes and returns later in the season.

DOWD Isn’t that something?

When you found out that Lizzie (Moss) would be back on screen, in addition to being an executive producer, how did you react? And did that excite you for the idea that June and Lydia could be scheming together?

DOWD Anything with Lizzie makes me deeply, deeply happy. I love that woman. She’s extraordinary. Directing us [in Handmaid’s], she was phenomenal. She knows everything about it, and just the notion of connecting in The Testaments is so wonderful. I don’t know how it will play out and when it will play out, but boy, will it be wonderful? I’m excited.

Also in this episode, the two of you acknowledge that Agnes has a very important mother. You don’t say June’s name, but you say Agnes’ mother was a handmaid. This was another big question going into the sequel series. Of course, Lydia has access to the bloodlines, so she must know who Agnes is. But I don’t see her treating Agnes differently. Can you talk about the conversations you had with Bruce and what you want us to think about what Lydia knows or feels toward Agnes?

DOWD I didn’t get a definite answer on that, which I find very interesting also, and being patient — it will come when it comes. I think she does have a special feeling for Agnes. Trying not to overshow it, but to keep her eye on Agnes and what’s going on. Her eye on Lucy [Halliday]’s character [Daisy], keeping an eye and always watching. But I think she does have a special thing for Agnes without question.

Aunt Vidala also says she knows who Agnes’ mother is. So Mabel, Vidala is aware of how powerful Agnes’ mom is?

LI The take that they chose for my response was that the subtext was a little bit judgmental. So I think that she disapproves [of June]. The dirtiness of it all. The fact that Agnes’ mother is a resistance fighter is, I think, not good in Vidala’s eyes.

It does open the door for a June-Lydia reunion, at some point. Have you imagined what that might look like, Ann, if you two get in the same room again?

DOWD I haven’t spent a long time on it, but boy, I imagine it would be phenomenal. Because the last time those two were together [in Handmaid’s], what happened? June Osborne took her down. Didn’t spare her anything. And Lydia didn’t fight back. She went down on her hands and knees and begged her for forgiveness. So I think there’s room for a very interesting, in its way, deep relationship that could follow.

We saw that Daisy and June have this Mayday relationship, so I thought that Daisy maybe ended up at Lydia’s school because of June and Lydia being in touch.

DOWD I don’t have the answer for you. I’m very interested myself in finding that out. That’s an interesting theory. But hey, we’re in season one. Of course, the hope is to go many seasons, so it’s going to be an extended storytelling.

The Handmaid’s Tale was so relevant. Bruce Miller has always said he’d stop doing this show when it stops being relevant. You’re back, and you’re relevant. What has the experience been like to be on a show that brings up so many issues that affect women and people in our real world?

DOWD Just the gratitude to be in a show that leaves the living room and goes to the streets. And the message of: “Stay alert. Be aware. Put your phone down. Get out on the street and protest, because no one is going to do it for you. You do it for yourself.” To be part of a show that does that? I mean, the first time I saw young women dressed up as handmaids on the street, I nearly fell off my bike, literally. I was confused. I was about to call out to them, thinking I was Lydia suddenly. I was about to stop them. Just the power of that, and how wonderful that is. Thank you, Margaret Atwood.

LI What’s so powerful about Margaret’s writing is that, unfortunately, it is timeless. She’s exploring the ways that fascist states or authoritarian states are created and maintained. It’s so unfortunate that it is so relevant right now, again, with The Testaments, as The Handmaid’s Tale was so timely when that was coming out.

***

The Testaments releases new episodes Wednesdays on Hulu.