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[This story contains major spoilers from the season 22 finale of Grey’s Anatomy.]

Grey’s Anatomy fans were surprised when it was announced that longtime stars Kevin McKidd and Kim Raver would be leaving the show at the end of this season. In the season 22 finale that aired on Thursday night, the two actors who play Dr. Owen Hunt and Dr. Teddy Altman walked off the ABC set for their last time together, after their divorced characters reconciled and decided to make a new life with the children they share in Paris.

Teddy and Owen were given a happy ending, and the reason they survived the often deadly and always dramatic medical drama is because showrunner Meg Marinis wanted to leave the door open for their return. The move to write off Owen and Teddy from Grey’s was a difficult one, sparked by a financial decision.

“I feel like we gave them a beautiful ending,” Marinis tells The Hollywood Reporter of the actors who joined Grey’s in season five and season six, respectively. “Those are always very difficult and very painful conversations. They came in here with grace, and they exited beautifully. There were a lot of hugs and a lot of tears between the three of us.”

Below, in a candid conversation with THR, Marinis goes inside the decision that prompted Grey’s to say goodbye to Owen and Teddy, how they crafted their ending, if they considered alternates — and if there will be a Grey’s wedding next season after that declaration from Meredith (Ellen Pompeo) that she wants to marry Nick (Scott Speedman).

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So when did these conversations begin with Kim Raver and Kevin McKidd about them exiting Grey’s?

Shortly after the New Year.

At that point, what are you breaking of this season?

The last four episodes.

Oh, so was this initiated by story or by them, or was it mutual?

It’s always initiated by story, but it’s no secret what this industry is experiencing right now.

So you came to them and said, “We feel like we have a really perfect way to wrap up Teddy and Owen”?

Yes. Shonda [Rhimes] and I had a conversation with them where we had to tell them that we have the ending for now for Teddy and Owen, but that doesn’t mean that we wouldn’t see them again in other seasons, as we do with our other characters who have departed the show.

How difficult was that conversation?

Um, those are always very difficult and very painful conversations. I’ve known them both for years. Kevin has directed in the double digits of episodes that I’ve written from the very beginning of me being on staff. Writing the episode was painful, and watching the cut multiple times is painful. But I feel like we wrote a really beautiful ending for them. They performed the heck out of it, and I could not be more grateful. There were a lot of hugs and a lot of tears between the three of us. And a lot of Kevin and I sitting on a bridge, reminiscing.

It says a lot about the industry when you have to make a tough decision like that. Were you trying to figure out options, any way to keep them on? What prompted it?

Obviously, you always run through different options. But for this particular option, you look at what creative solution works best for the story that’s happening right now on the show, and that was this solution. We had this story of this couple who had been dancing around each other for several seasons. I do believe they’re meant to be together forever, but I just don’t know if they were meant to be together forever in Seattle at Grey Sloan. So giving them this fresh start and a new place where Teddy is taking the lead and Owen is following her really felt like a beautiful way to end that journey and start a new one for them. Especially because of how Teddy’s character came to Grey’s Anatomy, especially with what she said last season, where she was choosing herself. It really felt like Owen came from one point to another in a really beautiful way over 18 seasons.

When you started writing their story this season — because they were reconciling with hurdles — did it feel like you were writing the end of their story when you started?

You know, this being season 22, about to be season 23, you kind of have to look at every character that way. Like, if I had to end it soon… Because you never know. You get that call in March that you’re renewed. You don’t get the call back in September. So you have to always be mentally and creatively prepared. I was trying to write several characters creatively if I had to exit all of them — could I put them at different cliffhangers? Meredith and Nick had a happy ending. Jo and Link were having this crossroads. I was looking at everybody like, can there be big fork in the road for these characters?

Were you considering killing Nick (Scott Speedman)?!

No! I can’t tell Nick. I can’t do it again to Meredith!

More on that later.. Back to Kim and Kevin. Were they able to accept this decision in that conversation? You said there were tears.

The tears were my tears! Obviously, change is difficult for anyone. Change is painful. We’ve all worked here for a very long time, but those two are the most professional you’ll find. They’ve been in this business for a very long time and they understand. They just want to bring the best story and best performance and like I said, they’re pros. They came in here with grace, and they exited beautifully.

Did you consider Owen not making it? Or was that never on the table?

It was definitely pitched as an iconic Grey’s Anatomy death. But I cannot kill Owen Hunt. I can’t. I love that character too much and I want to see him again.

Did you toy with an alternate ending for their relationship — that they would break up or that he wouldn’t go with Teddy to Paris?

Of course we discussed it. We always try to see if we can beat the story. Sometimes what you think is the best ending for weeks… you can have a pitch the day before and you’re like, “That’s better.” That’s certainly happened with other stories on our show. But we kept coming back to this one, and especially after speaking to Shonda about it. There was a lot of rewatching old episodes of Owen and Teddy and after piecing together and really dissecting what each character came here for and what they were searching for, this felt like the right way to do it.

I don’t know what you’re comfortable saying, but with them exiting together and at the same time, was it on the table that it had to be two cast members to exit?

Well, with those particular two characters, they share children. So it’s very hard to split them, even if they’re divorced. I don’t know if I want to talk too much about behind the scenes details, but all options were considered and when it was clear what I needed to do, this made the most sense creatively.

What goes into the Grey’s goodbye montage? How much do you do you labor over that?

We labor over it. That’s the last thing we were tweaking. We want to tell the story of their characters. That’s what goes into it. There were different iterations. They were some clips from Owen and the shooter episode and I was like, “I don’t know if that’s celebrating Owen for me. I don’t know if I want to see a gun in the montage.” Obviously, we wanted to see Christina [Yang] in the montage. But this really is about Owen. It’s not about Owen and Christina.

And for Teddy, it was about Teddy. It showed how they came to Grey’s Anatomy. Owen came as a soldier with PTSD searching for connection. So the clips start from there and show him struggling to find that connection with different characters. He ends up finding that connection with everybody, and in particular with Teddy. And the same for Teddy. She came here looking for Owen. She didn’t get Owen immediately, but she discovered herself by coming here to look for Owen, and I really feel like she’s come so far as a cardiothoracic surgeon, becoming a mother, becoming chief, and then having that happy ending with Owen.

Kim and Kevin were so emotional in the scene when they made the decision to choose each other. Was the final scene you shot with them together when they then walk out of the hospital?

That was the final thing we shot of them together, yes. We shot the bridge at the end of the schedule, so we wrapped Kim before we wrapped Owen. But as them together, yes, that was the final moment.

What was it like when you called “wrap” on them?

There was a clap out and speeches and pictures. Just celebrating the characters of Teddy Owen, and the work that can speak to it.

How open is the door is for Owen and Teddy to come back on Grey’s? I mean, they survived.

I would love to have them come back and visit. Absolutely. Obviously, it depends on schedules and timing and what’s right for the moment. To do it too immediately doesn’t make their beautiful exit as sweeping. But I said it to them and I’ve said it to everybody — we always bring our family back.

Could they come back and direct?

We’re always open to that here. They’re beautiful directors.

We’ve talked a lot about the challenges of showrunning a series with such a large ensemble. When main characters exit, it does open the storytelling door to focus on others in the cast. What other stories are you looking to tell next season, and with who?

We’re setting up a lot of complicated relationship drama. This was a season finale where I have shown that everybody is physically safe. But emotionally, everyone’s kind of in hot messes — besides Meredith and Nick.

Blue doesn’t have a job. Jo doesn’t know if she wants a job and she’s still struggling postpartum, and we’ve got Link who’s taking pills. Bailey wants to get on the conversation. Amelia has just made the messiest of messy mistakes. Winston and Jules are about to be found out. So the hospital’s not blown up. Nobody’s died. But can anyone be in the same room with each other?

With the Simone and Lucas love triangle, I love that we have Wes cracking open a little bit. He’s been this very arrogant young intern, but we’re starting to see that all of this has an effect on him just like everybody else. Simone thought this was casual, and he’s surprised her. And she certainly did not think she was going to hear Lucas say, “What if I don’t regret it,” especially after the way he’s treated her recently.

Meredith and Nick deciding to get married was huge. How quickly do you plan to play that out next season, and does that mean we’ll see more of them?

it obviously depends on [Scott Speedman’s show] RJ Decker, but Scott loves to come back. He flew late on a Friday. He filmed with us on a Saturday. He was a trooper. Whenever we can get the two of them, absolutely. We love them. We want as much as we can of them. As for what kind of wedding? We’ll see. She is not a wedding kind of girl and he knows that. But whatever it is, it’ll be very Meredith Grey.

Do you feel like that wedding would be next season?

I don’t know yet. I haven’t completely decided on what the timeline of next season is yet. About what kind of stories we’re telling and if it’s over several months.

Do you know if Ellen Pompeo will be in more episodes, or similar to this season? Have you had those conversations yet?

That’s between her and the studio and the network right now. I don’t think anything has officially been decided, but fro my end of things I think it’s going to be similar.

We spoke midseason about you wanting to bring more light this season. Seeing that everyone made it through the finale, I’m curious what that says about your mood and feelings around the industry and the state of medicine right now. Does that mean you’re feeling more hopeful?

I am still desperately searching for hope and everything outside of Grey’s Anatomy. We had some moments that were not hopeful in the middle of the season. We had the tragic story of Katie and her cancer and the clinical trial. Jo almost died. We lost Monica. I felt like we had experienced a lot of difficulty and I needed to end us in a place where I wasn’t having to mourn the physical life of anyone. We’re mourning emotional relationships and we’ll miss Owen and Teddy, but I needed to find hope in my stories.

Are there timely topics you are itching to explore next season that you are already thinking about?

That’s going to be through Bailey’s story right now, and what it takes to have a voice and make decisions in the industry you work in. I think she’s  hit her limit of frustration of trying to explain to the people who work for her — this is the way it is, and these are the rules, and that’s why we follow them. I think she’s finally come to realize, “why can’t I have a say in making the rules?” I’m really interested in what it looks like when someone at that point in their career becomes a student again.

Will next season’s episode count be similar?

I’ve not been given that that information yet. There are always different things you can do creatively with a different number of episodes. My feeling is that I wanted to give as many episodes of Grey’s Anatomy to this crew and cast, as well as to the fans. Whatever number they’ll give me, I’ll always look at it in a creative way and as a creative challenge, and then I’ll make it work.

And my favorite question for you, how many seasons will Grey’s go?

I love this job. I love this show. I’ll keep it going as long as Shonda and ABC allow me to. I’m doing everything I can to keep these lights on. Until they kick me out! I’m in it for the long haul. As long as they’ll have me here.

Can you end us on a parting tribute to Teddy and Owen?

The legacy for Owen is really his PTSD journey, from seeing someone who experienced such tragedy while saving lives out on the battlefield — seeing how far he’s come, that, to me, is the American hero story. It’s not necessarily being on the battlefield. It’s seeing him come back home and survive what he had been through and find connection and become a father and a husband. I admire that story, and I’m proud of it. Kevin delivered it beautifully.

And then to see Teddy’s journey as a woman, from being a trauma surgeon, being in the military, being chief. She was often the only woman probably in the room at all times, through her entire career. To see her face that, and not be daunted by everything around her, is such an inspiring story, particularly for women in Hollywood and for women in medicine. That is something I love about the character, and Kim delivered on that beautifully. Kim is very vocal about how important it is to have female voices on sets.

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Grey’s Anatomy streams all episodes on Hulu, and has been renewed for season 23.