When the Eric Swalwell sexual assault and misconduct allegations broke (opens in new tab), Jackie Speier had one question: Why didn’t the accusers come forward sooner? 

Speier herself had been sexually assaulted when she was a congressional staffer in the 1970s. Decades later, as a Democratic member of Congress during the #MeToo era, she led efforts to reform the way Capitol Hill handled sexual misconduct cases. The legislation she shepherded through Congress in 2018 with Republican Rep. Bradley Byrne provided free legal representation to accusers, banned forced nondisclosure agreements, and ensured members — rather than taxpayers — pay the settlements.

But Speier, who is now a member of the San Mateo Board of Supervisors, thinks that didn’t go far enough. “If a CEO of a company has an affair with a subordinate, they’re out of there. And why should it not be the case for a member of Congress? We thought we had closed that loophole. … I think it needs to be tightened,” she said in an interview with The Standard. “You have a relationship with someone on your staff, you’re going to be expelled.” 

Swalwell, a Democrat, resigned from the House last week and dropped out of the California governor’s race. (He denies the allegations.) Minutes later, Republican Rep. Tony Gonzales of Texas resigned, after admitting to an affair with a staffer who later died by suicide. Meanwhile, the House Ethics Committee has released a statement pledging “zero tolerance for sexual misconduct, harassment, or discrimination in the halls of Congress.” 

But Speier has heard statements like that before, and acknowledges that the culture of Capitol Hill remains “toxic.” It continues to be one where members are corrupted by power and parties protect their own. “What happens is that these members get elected, and all of a sudden they get empowered. They feel like they’re untouchable, that they can do anything.”

Here’s our conversation, condensed and edited for space and clarity: 

What went through your mind when the Swalwell allegations first broke?

I was stunned that the women who were victimized by him didn’t take the opportunity to use the resources that we had created for them in the legislation back in 2018.

Why do you think that is? 

We had made it so much more user friendly for the victim: provided that they would be represented by legal counsel, that they wouldn’t be subject to mandatory mediation or nondisclosure agreements, and that if there is a settlement, that the member would pick up the tab, not the taxpayer. 

So I really am urging my former colleagues in Congress — I’ve talked to a number of them over the last few days — to really drill down on the issue, find out why these women would not come forward. I’m sure some of the issues are around retaliation or being ostracized, but we’ve got to fix it so that they feel that they are protected and that they will be heard and that there will be a responsible end to it where the member is properly, not just chastised, but removed from office.

It seems like rumors of Swalwell’s behavior toward women have been swirling for years. His close friend Sen. Ruben Gallego said he heard rumors (opens in new tab) of Swalwell being “flirty.” Former Speaker Kevin McCarthy said Democratic congresswomen told him (opens in new tab) Swalwell was “sleazy.” Now, these weren’t necessarily rumors of criminal behavior, but is this in your experience how Congress works? People know who the bad actors are that women should stay away from, but nothing more happens?

Oftentimes, the young women have an informal network, and say to each other: “Don’t ever be in a place with this person or that person.” I think I was aware that he had a roving eye — let me put it that way. But I think what happens in Congress is everyone wants to just play nice. And there’s, “I hear no evil. I see no evil. I speak no evil.” It’s a toxic environment. And what happens is that these members get elected, and all of a sudden they get empowered. They feel like they’re untouchable, that that they can do anything. 

And I think that, in many cases, they have the same disease that Eric had, it’s just not as pronounced.

The disease being they feel untouchable or they have a “roving eye”?

That they’re untouchable. You know, some of these members start using their campaign money for personal gain. I was on an ethics case many years ago in Congress where a member was very clever about how he raided his campaign account to make personal gain. And it was stunning to me that people would think they could get away with it.

#MeToo seemed like such a huge moment in culture. And I know almost 10 years on, there’s discussion about whether the movement is completely over — but I’m still surprised by the behavior that has been alleged in Congress recently. Is there something about the culture of Congress that makes it impossible to change or resistant to movements like #MeToo?

It shouldn’t. If a CEO of a company has an affair with a subordinate, they’re out of there. And why should it not be the case for a member of Congress? We thought we had closed that loophole that you can’t have a relationship with someone in your office. I think it needs to be tightened, and it should be made perfectly clear when you first get elected and you’re going through orientation: You have a relationship with someone on your staff, you’re going to be expelled. 

Now, that’s the one thing they don’t want to have happen — that they’re going to lose this powerful position. But because Congress tends to look the other way, or the ethics process takes two years, they think they can get away with it.

You were behind reforms that made significant changes in how the Hill managed sexual misconduct claims. Do you have concrete steps that you think Congress should take now to make sure that sexual harassment and assault doesn’t continue to happen?

Well, first of all, I think they should create either a bipartisan task force or commission to really drill down on these cases and find out why these women did not report. What additional protections do they need? Do they have to be guaranteed that they can continue to work in Congress? I don’t know — whatever that is. I think creating the threat of expulsion could have a powerful effect as well. I think we need to make it very clear in the law that having a relationship with a member of your staff is going to make you subject to expulsion. 

You know, this is a funny story: Bradley Byrne is the Alabama Republican that I teamed up with on this — he had been an employment law lawyer, so he got it. We’re making a presentation to the new members during orientation, and talking about all of the reforms that we had made. Do you know what the first question was? The first question from a new member was, “Can we get insurance for this?”

Oh, my gosh.

That kind of says it all, doesn’t it

So you mentioned you had heard rumors that Swalwell had a roving eye, and that seems to be pretty widespread. If you’re in a position of power on the Hill — you’re a member of Congress or you have a leadership role — what obligation do you have to look into the rumors that somebody has a “roving eye”? Or is being receptive and responsible all you can do when women decide to come forward with real allegations?

So let me go back to your former question, because one of the reasons why these women tend to come forward when they do is because they find out that someone else has been treated just like them, and they don’t want it to happen to yet another person. When I was working on sexual assault in the military and sexual assault on college campuses, one of the programs that many institutions had created was one that allowed you to go online and put down all the information that you had about your sexual assault in real time and the perpetrator’s name, and it would identify if that person had done anything to any other women. And that tends to make women want to come forward. 

The other thing is, there needs to be an anonymous way that women on the Hill can report this to the Ethics Committee and have that member be investigated because of it. 

And it’s not just women who work in Congress. Before I left, I realized there was still yet another hole that had to be plugged: lobbyists. These women who worked for various lobbying firms were constantly being inappropriately touched by these members. One lobbyist said to me, “I was sitting in a meeting with him, and he just put his hand on my thigh.” Who knows how many interactions happen that we don’t know about? We need to make it easier for lobbyists to report misconduct as well. 

But do members or leadership who are hearing rumors about other members have a responsibility as well?

Well, I think they do, but the place is made up of people that go along to get along and no one wants to. I don’t know that the leadership is keen on challenging their members, because, first of all, they need the votes. I mean, look what happened. How long did it take George Santos to be expelled from Congress? It was laughable.

So I think we need to create some mechanisms that will trigger investigations swiftly and find out how much more protection these women feel they need in order to come forward.

If you were a colleague of Swalwell before he resigned, and you had heard these rumors, and you were still in office, what would you be doing about that right now?

That’s a very good question. When I first started dealing with this issue, I asked women to come forward — and I would meet with them, and it would be totally confidential — if they had been sexually harassed by a member. And a number of them came and met with me. I would probably start there and attempt to have them come forward and then guide them through the process.

When you talk to members of Congress now — you said you’ve been talking to some of them on the phone — are they taking this seriously? 

Well, the people that are calling me are taking it seriously. Whether or not they’re going to get pushback from their colleagues or the leadership, I don’t know. But the one person I haven’t reached out to but intend to is [House Minority Leader] Hakeem Jeffries. This is one of those moments where if Hakeem and [House Speaker] Mike Johnson together say, “We’re going to address this,” that could be very powerful. But they also don’t want to lose their numbers in Congress. So, you know, it’s do you do what’s political or what’s morally right?

Do you have any sense talking to people that this is going to be a moment of change? There are rumors that these two resignations are just the beginning and there are more shoes to drop.

Oh, I hope that’s true. I hope that women are willing to come forward. I hope that maybe there’s an anonymous line that’s created so that women can come forward. 

I mean, we do have to clean it up. It is disgusting.