Roan, 28, was the 2025 Grammy winner for best new artist. She advocates for LGBTQ+ rights and founded The Midwest Princess Project to support trans youth.

John: When I first heard your music and I first spoke to you, I realized that you’re a huge supporter of the LGBT+ community. That made me very, very happy for someone so young and so early on in their career to be so strident and so supportive meant such a great deal because not everybody is. And so you won my heart straight away, not with just your music, but because of your affiliations to your community. I thought it was brilliant.

Roan: No, just thank you for saying that. [Giggles] I think just being recognized by someone that I look up to so fiercely and just on such a big a big scale …. It’s just, it’s very affirming because sometimes you don’t know exactly if you’re doing the right thing because there’s so much in the world that needs that needs help and that like, okay, I see a person that I look up to who has really trailblazed a path for queer people saying that I am doing something that is actually helping, and I’m like, okay. I am doing good, like I’m not just spinning out here being like, well, hope what I’m doing matters. Like it does, and like that is a very calming, fulfilling feeling.

John: And I also would like to say that you speak out at a time when we need people to speak out, because when I came out in 1976 in Rolling Stone and then doing the Elton John AIDS Foundation later in my life, it’s a different scenario we are now. It’s a more dangerous scenario. Um, we live in politically hard times. Um, we live in, times where aid to, uh, gay charities and gay organizations are being cut. And it was really, really… That’s what struck me. I thought, “You go. You go, girl,” because it’s just we need someone as strident as you, whose artistic capabilities can back it up. It’s not just some willy-nilly saying, “Oh, I’ve just had a little hit record and I’m supporting the gay community.” This was a big impact person on the stage and on record and in the entertainment business, so it was important and incredibly moving at that time for me to see you take that stand so early.

Roan: Thank you. I would say like, it’s easy when it’s true. When it’s honest and it’s real, it’s easy to make it part of everything you do because it’s genuine. And if I didn’t feel so strongly or if I didn’t identify and I felt like I was kind of being an imposter, I don’t know how I would be able to make it such a part of my project and my lifestyle. I think that for me it’s kind of impossible to not have it a part of my project. It’s become so apparent that one of the biggest priorities is like to make an impact because it just makes so much sense for me personally and like the whole Chappell Roan project. So yeah, I would totally agree. It just like collides effortlessly.

John: There are a lot of people out there like Troye Sivan and Perfume Genius and other acts who are genuinely authentic in what they mean. I couldn’t imagine living my life if I didn’t do actively what I do for the LGBT+ community. Um, it’s just an essential part. When I came out in 1976, it was such a relief. You know, and a lot of artists are afraid to come out and support because they feel they, they don’t have the courage to do it, and they’re frightened. And that’s an awful thing to, that’s an awful indictment on our society. You came out like a cannonball out of a cannon, and you were there from the very word go, and so are a lot of other artists. But you, for me, were the one that really started me being so impressed, and everything I’ve read about what you said, watched your interviews, your so… not militant. You’re honest, and authentic, and she means you want to support the people that don’t have the opportunities that we have of being gay and find it a much harder position in a small town or a small city to be who they want to be.

Roan:  The thing to focus on is…people deserve to have good lives. Like you deserve to be free. Every single person deserves to have freedom and to be themselves. It’s just like, why would you fight against that?

And the people that are fighting, you know, for that, it’s working. It just is drowned out by, a lot of the hate. But it is important to stay the course and look at the people in the past who have gone through intense scrutiny and, literally been killed for what they believe in, or for being gay or for being honest. And to kind of carry on that legacy. And remember what people before us, what queer people gave their lives for us to be free-

John: Exactly.

Roan:  – right now. And to continue on that legacy and honor them.

John: I totally agree. It’s the people that came before us, that fought for our cause, that ended up by getting AIDS and dying or being killed in a nightclub or, or hate crime. Uh, we’re doing our message to make sure that their effort and their bravery is not forgotten.

Roan: Mm-hmm. When I am lost and feel hopeless, I look to the people that came before me and know that what they gave up is worth fighting for, and that joy and freedom should be protected at all costs. And with that in mind, taking it day by day and knowing that there are small things every day that you can do to protect the queer community yourself. And protecting love is what will keep you sane in such uncertain times. It will be a northstar for all of us if we are just coming at all of these issues with compassion and curiosity, which is the hardest thing to do, but it’s the only way we’re going to get through together. The only way we’re going to get through this is being united on what we are fighting for, what we want, and what we need and deserve. And having that northstar is the only way that we are going to be able to get what we need.

John: I honestly think they’re doing a great job and I think they, um, uh, they’re not letting things, uh, pass without saying something. They’re standing up and saying something. There are more out gay artists now than there ever has been. And, um. It’s, uh, it, it’s wonderful to see and I’m so thrilled about it. And a lot of, you know, gay actors coming out who are really box office smashers. Um, it’s very heartening. Not just in music, but in acting and everything in the, entertainment industry as it were. I’m very proud of the younger generation for speaking up. Um, and it, it puts a smile on my face. And you know what I, I’m very proud of them and, uh, if I could hug them all at once, I would, but they’re doing a wonderful job.

Peck, 38, is a trailblazing country performer who blends traditional country aesthetics with queer themes and uses his platforms to create visibility for the LGBTQ+ community. Peck was born in South Africa and is now based in Canada and the U.S.

Duran: You obviously were seduced by country music at a very early age. What was it about country music that sucked you in like that versus any other genre of music?

Peck: Yeah, I think, uh, you know, for me, like I said, anything that was a world that I could escape into that like I could really sort of devour in terms of imagination was always attractive to me. And so, I remember discovering Johnny Cash and Dolly Parton around the same time. And that era of country especially, and, you know, those two figures of country, they, they seemed like characters to me. Like // I thought Dolly Parton was like Elvira, like I thought she was like a character on like Sesame Street or something. I didn’t know that, that she was like just a real person. And so, that sort of charm of the fantasy around these personas really drew me in. And I, I thought it was just so romantic and so cool.

And then as I got older, especially seeing that that was intersected, like I said, with this incredible vulnerability or sincerity, you know, like Dolly Parton’s the perfect example and you know, it’s like she is this larger than life almost drag queen persona of what it is to be like this, like kind of cheerful small town Tennessee girl, and her music is so incredibly moving, you know, it’s not, it’s not flippant and it’s not silly, and it’s not sort like an act. It’s, it’s this combination of two incredible expressions of art and sincerity. And so I think that’s definitely what drew me in when I was little, for sure.

Duran:  So, I mean, can you remember a moment where you actually saw another queer artist who made you stop and go, oh God, there, there is space for me. I can make my way in this world as a queer artist.

Peck: I mean, Elton is the perfect example because the thing I think was so incredible about what Elton has achieved and especially achieved early in his career is like // I think it’s so rare. It would be so rare to find somebody who does not like an Elton John song, and I, I like – to be from any walk of life, you know, uh, like the most probably like seemingly closed-minded type of person. Like they probably like an Elton John song // chances are, and I mean, to achieve that as a gay man. And to able to run an entire like global spectrum of people that relate to or enjoy at least one you’ve done. That is an insane achievement in itself. But also that is such a encouraging thing to see as a young, queer person who wants to make art do things that like, there is a way to, have music transcend these boundaries that we all create or we think we have.

Um, another one definitely is David Bowie. I think when I was young, I was just like obsessed with everything that David Bowie did artistically, creatively, because it was so, so outside the box and you know, just so kind of unapologetic. And I think kind of seeing someone do that artistically as well as then see the, uh, success that that person had. Um, I think that was very encouraging. And yeah, Melissa Etheridge, KD Lang, I mean, I remember seeing both of them and listening to their music when I was younger and, you know, Tracy Chapman, I mean, there’s like so many examples for sure. But, there should have been more, but there were definitely some very good ones growing up for me.

Duran: Hey, I saw you on with Drew Barrymore and that was a great interview by the way. I loved how she called you a human bridge. You bring all different types of people together. Country music fans, queer fans, fans of performance, art. Whatever, in the same room at the same party. You do have a great fan base that is just all over the spectrum.

Peck: I mean, just for starters, it’s, it’s not what I intended. Nothing I’ve achieved is necessarily anything I’ve intended ’cause I just make things up as I go along. I’m just like doing my thing. So everything is like, uh, a pleasant surprise. But me and my band, we’ve all played in very different kinds of projects and genres all through our careers. And, you know, especially me, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve played music in every type of genre. And the nice thing about, you know, my audiences now is like, you can look out in the crowd and you will see the widest spectrum of people. And I’m, I mean, I like in terms of style and aesthetic, and you can tell their genre. It’s such a mix – country fans, punk fans, indie people, uh, like genders, races, and also also like age. You know, we have everyone from, uh, I, I’m really big with kids. Like, you know, little kids are I think they think I’m like a superhero vibe, so like a lot of little kids really like me. And then often we’ll have, you like couples in their eighties who are just old school country fans at my show standing next to like a drag queen standing next to like, you know, a Black punk kid. Like, it’s just the coolest thing. It’s so, it’s so special.

Duran: It sounds like you’re having a lot of fun. Are you?

Peck: I am. I mean, like I said, you know I, when I made my first album Pony, I truly, truly. My only goal was to make an album. I think I spent $500 on recording it, and was begging any record label to listen to it and try to put it out. So like everything since then has sort of been, just like an added surprise because my expectations were really low.

Duran: Do you have any advice for anyone who would love to be a gay icon one day?

Peck: Have some fearlessness or, well, actually no, fearlessness is the wrong word. I think have courage. ’cause I think there’s still fear in courage. You know, like I feel frightened all time still, but I definitely feel like I have a healthy amount of bravery in the sense that I will just do something even though I’m frightened. Um, so I think have a little courage and know that fear is ok to be part of that. You’re never gonna be fearless doing anything. And I think just, really try to be yourself and show up as your authentic self because it is the best version of you. You never need to censor yourself or tame yourself, or, you know, dull your shine for anybody, because that’s just never gonna be the best version of yourself. And have a bit of naivete like I did. Just uh, assume that you have, uh, a seat waiting for you at every table, that you don’t need to fight your way through it. Uh, I think when you walk into a room that sort of, blind confidence uh, more than you think. Just, assume that there’s nothing that is, uh, in your way as much as you can.

Etheridge, 65, is a two-time Grammy winner for best female rock vocal performance (“Ain’t It Heavy” and “Come to My Window”) and an Oscar-winning songwriter (“I Need to Wake Up” from An Inconvenient Truth). Etheridge has used her platform to champion LGBTQ+ rights for decades. Etheridge came out as lesbian at a party celebrating Bill Clinton’s inauguration on Jan. 20, 1993.

Duran: So Melissa, you came out and it, was it a problem? Was it of, uh, was it a wall of negativity for you? Or were you sort of taken aback by the fact that, oh, she’s out great. We love her music, let’s go see her show. I mean, how did, how did you perceive it from your point of view?

Etheridge: Now I tell people I went from selling about a million copies a record to selling 7 million of Yes I Am in one year. So I sell, I tell people, no, it didn’t hurt me, but I believe that the extra press I got from being gay, you know, all of a sudden, I was more of a headline story instead of oh, Melissa Etheridge, you know, she’s coming. It made me more interesting. They wanted to talk to me. All of a sudden there was different television shows that wanted to talk about it. It became a good thing. You know, any press is good press and most of the press was, was very, very, very positive and, uh, curious and, um, you know, all of a sudden I’m on the cover of Rolling Stone. It’s sort of, uh, fed on each one. Now, I also, you know, know that there was some things that I didn’t get or receive and, and I think, you know, it, it’s hard to say in the music business ’cause things are come and go, but you would. But it’s a very, very male, straight, white dominated business. And, um, I, I choose not to look at the negative stuff. I just see that there was a whole lot of positive stuff that came out.

Duran: What about other upcoming artists, some other, uh, queer artists out there. Is there anyone out there that, that you’re following, you’re into?

Etheridge: Man, there are so many great, queer artists out there. And the thing that I love, and this is the thing that I talked about 30 years ago when I came out, I said, someday there will be artists that come out that are gay, and that’s just a little side note because they’re so interesting. I mean, the number one right now is Chappell Roan. You look at her and you go, look at that. And then you see, uh, Fletcher and these great, just these powerful women singing…

Duran: And I love that you gave yourself some credit here for Chappell Roan and Fletcher being feeling safe to be out. So if, if a queer artist came to you looking for advice, I’m assuming there really is not a lot of difference between advice for a queer artist versus any artist?

Etheridge: Yeah. Yeah. I would say authenticity is the, is the best thing because you, you might be, you know, searching for that, that hit that single, that moment of fame and that moment of fame is fun. But you wanna build a career and if you’re gonna have years and years and years of touring as I have, that’s the only way you can really control your, uh, career and, um, income and, and to be a professional musician for the rest of your life is to tour. That’s the, that’s where the money is. If you wanna do that year after year, you better be authentic in what you’re doing or it’s gonna drive you mad. You’re gonna, you’re gonna, so, so I would just say whatever you are, just be it. Be comfortable with it. And sing your songs, and just know that every day you did the best you could. And love what you do, do what you love, and love what you do. ‘Cause hopefully you will do it for a long, long, long time.

Duran: Also people have BS detectors. If you’re not being your authentic self, they’ll know. Right. They know they got you.

Etheridge: You can fool them for a little while, but not for very long.

Duran: Right. So what’s it like when a fan comes up to you, looks you in the eye and says, you have no idea, Melissa, how you’ve inspired me to be full of courage, and be my authentic self.

Etheridge: That still happens to me. Uh, and I gotta tell you, it’s one of the reasons that has made coming out so satisfying is that I get these men and women in their forties, somewhere around there who say, look, when I was in high school and I didn’t know what was going on, // you were the only person talking about being gay. The only person I could look to, I have stories of, you know, parents who realized, you know, when their kids come out to them at, at a young age, you know, 13, 14, 15, 16, um, who say, okay, here’s this woman, listen to her music, you know, and, and use using my music as a, a, a comfort tool, as a, as a tool of, “hey, this person is successful.” I’ve seen videos of teachers actually pointing to my music and pointing to the, the cover of Rolling Stone and going, this person is gay and this, you know, and, and I still, I still, still still, the, the Indigo Girls, um, uh, the production manager had done all this work. I think she was in Florida, I forget, you know, and just was a real advocate in her school. And she just said, look, thank you for who you were because, because of who you were, I was able to be strong and, you know, and stand up and influence my school this way.

Duran: Wow. Any fans that would say because of you I came out. Without you. I never would come out?

Etheridge: Oh, I don’t know. You never know about that with people. You hope that they would always, ’cause I, I think suppressing who you are is, is one of the most dangerous, hard things that, that people do. And I think if you look behind a lot of the really tragic crimes in our country, a lot can come from the messing up about our sexuality and, and the repression and oppression of, of anyone who’s different than heteronormal. And you know, that’s not good.

Duran: Alright, so I’m gonna, I’m gonna ask you a question you may be embarrassed to answer, but I, I’m, I’m hoping that you go ahead and answer. Can you describe – Melissa Etheridge – can you describe the impact you feel that you’ve had on the music industry and the culture?

Etheridge: I hope that people, you know, years from now can say that. // I was a lesbian in rock and roll that made it okay to like gay music. You know, to – and gay music, meaning music made by gay people – and that I could come out and be who I was and still be accepted by – and listened to – by mainstream audiences, and hopefully it helped people not be afraid to be who they are. You know? I just, I just hope that, that, you know, that people feel that way.

Bailey, 38, is a film, television and stage actor who launched The Shameless Fund to support LGBTQ+ charities. The English actor received a Primetime Emmy nomination for his performance in Showtime’s Fellow Travelers and a total of four Actor Award nods for Bridgeton and Wicked. Bailey is People’s reigning Sexiest Man Alive – a huge – and until quite recently, unimaginable – step forward for representation.

John: You know, being gay has been never been a problem for me, as far as an entertainer goes. … And I’m extremely lucky to be able to do what I do because if I can help people by being open about who I am, then that is one of the greatest gifts you can possibly have.

Bailey: Yeah, it’s a total privilege, isn’t it?

John: Yes. 

Bailey: I feel like I’ve just been such a recipient of queer joy sort of all my life. Um, and it permeates through art in such a like, special way. But yeah, I think joy is like a universal, human experience and I think it’s something that everyone relishes. So…I think if you choose good work and you show up and put all your sort of love and enthusiasm into it. I think that sort of permeates through no matter what you’re doing. But yeah, I love the community. And yeah, I’ve always loved theater and going to the cinema and going to see live music and it’s that feeling that has always driven me into wanting to, to do what I do. So, to pay that back and to create more moments for other people to experience that feels completely, sort of thrilling actually.

John: Jonathan, did you ever feel when you were younger, pressured to hide the fact that you might be gay because of, uh, the business you were in, or you were just frightened? Or were you just confident within yourself that it didn’t really matter?

Bailey: I think, uh, there’s so much nuance to it. I think there’s, there’s a combination of all three. In a way I feel innately that I knew myself at quite a young age actually, and the hardware is one of confidence. And then of course you, you know, you just take on these stories and these narratives that are sort of like cobwebs. And the closer I got, you know, I found acting. And I think the reason why I loved acting is because for the first time, in a world where you have to sort of code switch and be hypervigilant about what you’re saying and how you come across, especially to your peers, if they’re gonna acknowledge something that you say or the way you say it as denoting of your sexuality to then get given a script and to actually be able to lean into the right thing to do and to then be truthful in it felt really, really good.

But then as that hobby sort of led towards an adult career, of course I was well aware that there are, and, you know, with even now, breaking glass ceilings about, the possibilities and the limits of queer actors and what that means to an audience and whether that, you know bleeds into commerce and how that affects it. So yeah, I think when I was in my early twenties, there was definitely an understanding that, to be gay would be a hindrance. But I got to a point, I was just like, there’s absolutely no way. I wasn’t gonna, you know, everything is a compromise. I wasn’t gonna not hold my boyfriend’s hand in the street, and that was something that I felt so strongly in an animal sense. And of course if that meant that it was gonna impede any potential work, then I was willing to take that risk.

So, there’s lots of nuance in there, but I think I feel very lucky to be born at a time that I, that, that I was, and that I do think fundamentally I was very confident about who I am and in my sexuality. Um, but then of course it’s been, you know, I feel like I was in, uh, an escape room, um, and ducking and diving lasers and it does feel really, really scary. But, you know, it’s always, it’s never an easy path. Um, but you just, uh, I think if you can just act with kindness, then every step gets easier, maybe.

John: When I was younger and I, listen, I didn’t know I was gay, but I saw people like Little Richard. And I saw people like Liberace. Um, and I, and I’d, I thought they’re different. There’s something about them that I want to be like, in a way, they were showmen, they were just, they, there was something different and magical about them. There was a lot of Little Richard and a lot of Liberace about me. Um, and so I think those two especially, really influenced me to how I performed, how I looked. And so they had an incredible impact on me. But I didn’t know what gay was in the 1950s. Nobody, there was no gay people in my family. There were no examples of it around. Um, so I mean, I didn’t really have a gay experience till I was 23. And then it all, you know, blossomed. It was like a rocket taken off. Um, and it was, uh, all my life really was involved in music.

Bailey: And I think, I think what makes sort of the queer experience kind of brilliant for artists in general is that there is, you have to at some point be completely radical and you have to express something bigger than the world will understand. And so I think that’s why. You know, even before you understand actually, or people in a closet or the way that they carry themselves and tell their own sort of stories, you sort of relate to them. But I, for me, I, I was fully aware of, I sort of was lucky that I was born into a time where, you know, things were really, to use your word, were blossoming and it was like the right time to become sort of inspired and the obvious is like, I’m just so aware of how important stories are and about representation in that I remember This Life [a 1996 British TV series] being my older sister’s watching This Life. Remember being so turned on and so excited. Those two performers and it was so hot.

And then I also in, in like, even in cartoons, like watching like the masculine foreman when I was really young in The Little Mermaid, I was obsessed with Prince Eric, which I later sort of understood. And, and like even in Heartbreak High, which was an Australian sort of teenage soap, they were just like these stories and obviously Queer as Folk. And then Brokeback Mountain came out when I was in my sixth form and I changed my thesis on representation in terms of homosexuality in Brokeback Mountain, just so that I had an excuse to go back to cinema about 15 times. But it, even though the stories itself were painful, it was just enough to see actors performing them, which just shows how bread-crumbed I think we were, at that point.

And then you look to people like Ian McKellen, obviously, and, the fearless sort of gay actors, you know, have been out from the get-go. And I think true to what you were saying, Elton is like, there was no option to not be out for so many different people. And, and then, you know, people are like – I get to go work with Matt Bomer, but I remember working with him on Fellow Travelers, but also having seen him just be  amazing and brilliant and out with his family, and it’s just amazing then that you get to go and work and surround yourself with these people and then you sort of look to the next generation, I’m like, God, there’s so much that I feel like I can learn from them because they are so articulate and so self-aware and generous in terms of empathy.

And yeah, there’s nothing to no advice really to give other than the fact that growing up in the nineties I was just, I was so lucky to see legislation coming into play that sort of politically and, um, legally protected our community, which meant joy was easily accessible. And, I wonder if the next generation just needs to know how to harness the joy that they can communicate to their fans and in the stories they tell. And just know that we’re gonna need it more than ever. Because obviously it’s a striking time where there’s a real threat that things can slip. But yeah, I mean, it’s an amazing thing, isn’t it? Generational, um, relationships and being in a part of a community where we are all just benefactors of who came before us.

John: You spearheaded the whole group of new gay actors and there are so many of them. And, um, it’s so wonderful. A lot of people have, I, I think, um, were afraid to, in an acting world, were afraid to come out because they wouldn’t get parts. I mean, you…people like you and Matt Bomer and so many other actors right now, young actors, um, Ben Wishaw, Andrew Scott. Yeah, I mean, it’s just amazing. So, bravo my darling. You certainly deserve this award and I’m so proud to know you and count you as a friend. So thank you so much for all you do.

Bailey: Well, thank you. Listen, we’re taking on, um. We’re taking over the baton and the legacy and, and, uh, and we continue. And we continue. And that’s what it’s all about with joy.

Cox, 54, is a four-time Primetime Emmy nominee for outstanding guess actress in a drama series for Orange Is the New Black, and a two-time Actor Award winner for that same series. Cox has elevated transgender visibility in mainstream media and remains a powerful voice for equality and inclusion.

Duran: Laverne of course, took my heart playing the incredible Sophia on the landmark show, Orange is the New Black back in 2014, breaking gender and color barriers in that role as a Black trans woman who was fully realized as a Black trans character. … And I want to talk about how you got here. Uh, I mean, growing up in Alabama – a very, very creative, expressive kid growing up in Alabama, you know? Did you ever have vision of what the future could be like for you as the person you were at that time?

Cox: What got me through my childhood was my imagination and being creative and being an artist. I started as a dancer, and so when I, as I started to walk, I started to dance and there was music. There was always music in my head from like what I’d seen on TV and I would just make up characters and move to music in my head, expressing characters through movement. And from five years old till third grade, I begged my mother to put me into dance classes. And finally, when I was in third grade, I started studying tap and jazz at a place called Culture in Black and White. It was an arts program for low-income kids in Mobile, Alabama. And that arts program saved my life. I started choreographing dance routines and doing talent shows. One of my favorite, um, childhood memories is choreographing a jazz dance routine to “Manhunt” from Flashdance, um, as an eight, 9-year-old and doing talent shows. And that song is like, “I’m going on a manhunt.” And I don’t know. I’m not, I really didn’t know what this song was about as an 8-year-old, but I love the song. I’m still obsessed with Flashdance. And so being creative and being artistic, and living kind of in my imagination, I was a disassociative kind of thing. That really got me through my childhood, and I find even as an adult now that I can go back to that I have this consistency of like my imagination. And music and dance and characters that like soothes me to this day. And art has been such a gift in my life that has just gotten me through everything really.

Duran: But between then and then you wake up one day and someone says, here, you’re on the cover of Time magazine in 2014. Between those two things, obviously. You realize there was a future for you. Back in those days. What future were you setting up for yourself in your mind and in your heart?

Cox: It’s so funny, I, I got a Black history book from my mother when I was about six years old, and it had biographies of famous African Americans and I, and I was obsessed, became obsessed with the opera singer Leontyne Price. Of course, Catherine Dunham was in the book, Martin Luther King. WEB du Bois, et cetera. But I was obsessed with this photo of Leontyne Price and I had never heard her sing or anything. And I’m still obsessed with her now that I’ve heard her sing. And so I thought, I remember being six years old and thinking, what if through my art I could make things better for people who followed me? This is a 6-year-old, so even as the kids bullied me, I was like, I’m here for something bigger than all of this.

Duran: Look at where you have been a part of bringing the world forward. Laverne, you’re a part of this. Have you ever thought about that?

Cox: I think about it all the time. Um, both positively and negatively. … A movement takes a lot of different people and I am so grateful that because I had an opportunity to be on a very popular show that, um, you know, was shown all over the world and got to play a character that, you know, touched people’s hearts that I was able to use that platform of that show to inspire other trans people and create visibility for other trans folks.

What I, one of the things I, um, love saying about being the first, openly trans person to be on the cover of Time magazine, and I’m not the last. That I was the first openly trans person nominated for an acting Emmy, but I’m not the last, there have been like, I think three or four, four actors since me, um, no one has won Emmy, but, um, Michaela Jaé Rodriguez has won of Golden Globe, um, which is historic. And so there’s trans people who are breaking so many barriers, and that makes me really proud. But with the beautiful visibility that has come, um, since, you know, 2014 has been, um, a colossal backlash, which is often inevitable with, um, when a, you know marginalized group of people sort of comes to the fore and the backlash has been, um, devastating is, is, is the best word I can come up with and it’s hard for me to even talk about right now.

And when I am surrounded by other trans people and I see our beauty and our power that gives me so much hope that despite all of the stigmatizing and dehumanizing and attempts to criminalize us, that we have always been here. It’s always been difficult for us. We’ve been criminalized before and we found a way, and that, that way it’s been through community, that way has been through chosen family. That way has been through loving each other and supporting each other. And so I would say like finding some sense of community online in person – I think in person’s better if you can – If you can’t, wherever you are, find it online – that you are not alone and that if you’re trans and you’re struggling, trans is beautiful.

It was 10 years ago. That I started the hashtag trans is beautiful. I was doing a college lecture and just randomly I had like a, you know, a prepared speech, but I would always ad lib and I was like, what if we started this movement? I was thinking about, um, Bell Hooks, my, um, my feminist idol and this and her book, Black Looks or first book I read of her. She has. Uh, a chapter in the book called Loving Blackness is Political Resistance. And she was talking about the Black is beautiful movement of the 1960s and 70s that was about empowering Black people to understand our beauty. Black is beautiful. It’s like, what if we, trans people need a movement like that so we can understand that we’re beautiful, you know, beyond cis normative like beauty standards, right? I still remind myself when I hear my voice and I think it’s too deep, or I, I’m like, oh, my shoulders are too wide or my hands are too big. And I’m like, Laverne, Trans is beautiful. So in that, for me means, I’m not beautiful despite my big hands, my big feet, my wide shoulders, my height, my deep voice.

I’m beautiful because of those things, and it’s very personal and it’s been a beautiful thing to see trans people take that hashtag and use it to empower themselves. Millions, tens of millions, I think of trans people have used that hashtag over the past 10 years. And then I think that like there hasn’t been a sufficient, um, counter narrative to the propaganda, and it’s been, it’s hard for me to even come, sort of, come up with language and verbiage because I don’t wanna have a conversation, um, with my oppressor about my humanity and debating my right to exist, right?  But what I know for sure is that trans is beautiful, that trans people are anointed, that we are so beautiful and special and provide, um, for people who aren’t trans, a template. I think that’s why people are so scared.

King, 82, is asports and women’s rights icon and humanitarian who has spent her life advocating for gender and LGBTQ+ equality in and out of sports.

Porter: How long have you known Elton?

King: I met Elton [in L.A.] two weeks before I played Bobby Riggs in 1973 And he was my all-time favorite because the way he plays the piano, piano was my first love. I have zero talent, not like you and, and others, and Elton. And I loved his songs. And of course then I met Bernie Taupen, who does the lyrics. So I met him, uh, in 1973, but we really got to know each other in ‘74 when I came to Wimbledon, he left a note to call him, and I almost didn’t call him ’cause I was, I was like, uh, so shy. But he came over in his Rolls Royce and his 42 speakers in it or whatever, and we listened to music until five o’clock in the morning. We just hit it off. It just boom like that. It was like, we’ve been, but you know, Elton loves soccer or we’d say football over in Europe and tennis. Those are his two favorites. I mean, he would’ve loved to been like Wimbledon champion and all that. Of course, I love…I think every athlete wants to be a rock and roll star and a lot of rock and roll stars wanna be athletes. So it’s uh, it’s a great, uh, wonderful common society. We’re all together.

Porter: You know, rolling back to being a young lady in sports, breaking barriers, breaking glass ceilings.  What was the process of you coming out, was there fear involved?

King: Oh, there’s a lot of fear. Oh, I was scared to death. … [In 1968], we started women’s professional tennis, and then we started a tour. And the tour told me, uh, they knew things were happening [in my personal life] behind-the-scenes and I…and I was trying to figure out who I am and what my sexuality was, and I, I really wasn’t clear. And they said, well, if you say one word, we won’t have a tour. Well, that’ll put the fear of God in me. Now it’s about the tour, which is global by the way. It’s not just – it’s global. It’s a lot.  And there’s a future. So I kept quiet and in the meantime, I kept trying to figure life out. Um, and then in ‘81 I was outed by, uh, somebody I had an affair with, Marilyn Barnett, and I lost all my endorsements in 24 hours except one, but he cut down the price a lot and I just signed new contracts. I was 37. … And that was wrong because I should have just not done what my PR people said in the first place. I went against my lawyer and my PR person said, you should never say admit this. You say it’s private. Absolutely not. I said, I’m gonna tell the truth. And they were not –

Porter: And the truth shall set you free.

King: You hope so. And so they were upset with me because I wanted to do this, but I did it and they did get behind it once I said, we’re going to do this.

Porter: And thank God you did.

King:  So I basically started over, and I was in my forties. That’s been my journey and everything’s worked out great. But it was a difficult process. But I think everyone has difficult processes. Yeah. You know, what they go through. I don’t know what you went through, but you came out at 16, didn’t you?

Porter: I came out at 16. You know, everybody told me that my gayness would be my liability. You know, my church put me out. My drama school tried to beat it outta me.

King: What church did you belong to?

Porter: I went, I was Pentecostal. I grew up Pentecostal. And they, in quotes, whoever they are weren’t entirely wrong for a long period of time. You know, the first 20, 25 years of my career, it was a liability. My queerness was a liability. Until it wasn’t.

King: It’s not now, baby.

Porter: It’s not. And –

King: Well, how did, when did it shift, do you think?

Porter: It shifted in me first. Just like you just said.

King: It’s true.

Porter: You said, I’m gonna tell the truth. And I said…at 30…in my thirties, early thirties, you know what? It was after my first record deal imploded – R&B record deal, on A&M Records…nineties, R&B. Very, very straight, very homophobic. And I wasn’t lying, but I just wasn’t speaking like, like your lawyer said.

King: Yeah, I wasn’t either.

Porter: You know, I just wasn’t speaking and that sort of felt fine at the time.  And then it didn’t work anyway. So I had forsaken myself and did not get the reward that I was promised for doing that. And I thought I will never fail as somebody else again. If I fail, I will be failing as my full, authentic self. And I took myself outta the masculinity game. And it didn’t happen overnight, but slowly but surely, it was like, oh, well, you love yourself enough. I loved myself enough. I loved myself to life. And that’s what we have to teach our young people and remind our young people.

VO: So, we’re here today because you are being honored with the Elton John Impact Award. How does that make you feel?

King: What an honor it is. I mean, you know, with Elton having his name on the Impact Award. But it’s an honor to, to think that I had an impact at all on the LGBT community, but I’m always trying to help any way I can. Also, I find talking withyoung people who have just come out or thinking about it. That’s where I really try to listen and listen really, really hard. And then try to help figure out what do they need now and for the future because they are the future for our community. And I want our community to be safe, and I want our community to be open, we need allies. And I mean, even our marriage is at stake right now. And I, I cannot believe that. I mean, Ilana and I got married. We’ve been together 45 years, couldn’t get married when we wanted, and then we got married in, I think 2018. Anyway, I just want people to be free and have the same rights. I want everyone to have the same rights, to be good to each other, and have more empathy. But, I think this Elton John Impact Award hopefully will encourage people to think about our community and what can they do to impact it, because it’s how we impact other people’s lives, how we contribute to them that matters.