惯性聚合 高效追踪和阅读你感兴趣的博客、新闻、科技资讯
阅读原文 在惯性聚合中打开

推荐订阅源

S
Securelist
L
LangChain Blog
让小产品的独立变现更简单 - ezindie.com
让小产品的独立变现更简单 - ezindie.com
腾讯CDC
月光博客
月光博客
S
Schneier on Security
Simon Willison's Weblog
Simon Willison's Weblog
WordPress大学
WordPress大学
freeCodeCamp Programming Tutorials: Python, JavaScript, Git & More
D
Darknet – Hacking Tools, Hacker News & Cyber Security
C
Cisco Blogs
cs.AI updates on arXiv.org
cs.AI updates on arXiv.org
美团技术团队
S
Security @ Cisco Blogs
人人都是产品经理
人人都是产品经理
L
LINUX DO - 热门话题
S
SegmentFault 最新的问题
D
DataBreaches.Net
C
CXSECURITY Database RSS Feed - CXSecurity.com
Microsoft Security Blog
Microsoft Security Blog
www.infosecurity-magazine.com
www.infosecurity-magazine.com
N
News | PayPal Newsroom
W
WeLiveSecurity
F
Fortinet All Blogs
The Hacker News
The Hacker News
The Register - Security
The Register - Security
P
Palo Alto Networks Blog
Engineering at Meta
Engineering at Meta
T
The Exploit Database - CXSecurity.com
Vercel News
Vercel News
G
GRAHAM CLULEY
博客园 - 聂微东
P
Privacy International News Feed
P
Privacy & Cybersecurity Law Blog
Hacker News: Ask HN
Hacker News: Ask HN
Webroot Blog
Webroot Blog
G
Google Developers Blog
T
Tailwind CSS Blog
V
Vulnerabilities – Threatpost
L
Lohrmann on Cybersecurity
T
Tenable Blog
Cisco Talos Blog
Cisco Talos Blog
K
KPMG report finds enterprise disconnect between AI and its ROI | CIO
S
Security Affairs
云风的 BLOG
云风的 BLOG
cs.CV updates on arXiv.org
cs.CV updates on arXiv.org
B
Blog
Exploit-DB.com RSS Feed
Exploit-DB.com RSS Feed
Hugging Face - Blog
Hugging Face - Blog
T
Threatpost

Hacker News: Front Page

SPICE simulation → oscilloscope → verification with Claude Code — Lucas Gerads GitHub - GainSec/AutoProber: Hardware hacker’s flying probe automation stack for agent-driven target discovery, microscope mapping, safety-monitored CNC motion, probe review, and controlled pin probing. Introducing Claude Opus 4.7 Qwen Studio The Future of Everything is Lies, I Guess: Where Do We Go From Here? GitHub - SeanFDZ/macmind: Single-layer transformer in HyperTalk for the classic Macintosh Virginia Bans Sale of Geolocation Data Show HN: Agent-cache – Multi-tier LLM/tool/session caching for Valkey and Redis Ancient DNA reveals pervasive directional selection across West Eurasia [pdf] AI cybersecurity is not proof of work Moving a large-scale metrics pipeline from StatsD to OpenTelemetry / Prometheus GitHub - Nightmare-Eclipse/RedSun: The Red Sun vulnerability repository GitHub - SethPyle376/hiraeth: Local AWS emulator focused on fast integration testing, with SQS support, SQLite-backed state, and a debug-friendly web UI. A Better Ludum Dare; Or, How to Ruin a Legacy GitHub - macOS26/Agent: Any AI, replaces Claude Code, Cursor, OpenClaw. Over 18 LLM providers (Claude, OpenAI, Gemini, Ollama, Zai, HF, Qwen) wired into a native Mac app that writes code, builds Xcode projects, bumps versions, manages git, automates Safari, use AppleScript, JS or Accessibility, extend Agent! w/ MCP Servers, run tasks from your iPhone via Messages. YouTube now lets you turn off Shorts I Made a Terminal Pager Burgers | マクドナルド公式 Commands — HackerNews CLI documentation ChatGPT for Excel PiCore - Raspberry Pi Port of Tiny Core Linux Live Nation illegally monopolized ticketing market, jury finds Google Broke Its Promise to Me. Now ICE Has My Data. Founding Engineer at Adaptional | Y Combinator CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome GitHub - saffron-health/libretto: The AI toolkit for building reliable browser automations US v. Heppner (S.D.N.Y. 2026) no attorney-client privilege for AI chats [pdf] Unexpected €54k billing spike in 13 hours: Firebase browser key without API restrictions used for Gemini requests Fragments: April 14 Cal.com Goes Closed Source: Why AI Security Is Forcing Our Decision | Cal.com - Scheduling Software for Online Bookings Laravel raised money and now injects ads directly into your agent Codex Hacked a Samsung TV Tech Valuations Back to Pre-AI Boom Levels A perfectable programming language — Soter GitHub - halfwhey/claudraband: Claude Code for the Power User Partnership through Play: Investigating How Long-Distance Couples Use Digital Games to Facilitate Intimacy Textbooks and Methods of Note-Taking in Early Modern Europe (2008) Eternity in six hours: Intergalactic spreading of intelligent life (2013) Seven countries now generate 100% of their electricity from renewable energy Tell HN: OpenAI silently removed Study Mode from ChatGPT Pro Max 5x Quota Exhausted in 1.5 Hours Despite Moderate Usage Show HN: Oberon System 3 runs natively on Raspberry Pi 3 (with ready SD card) Tell HN: docker pull fails in spain due to football cloudflare block Bring Back Idiomatic Design No one owes you supply-chain security GitHub - xsawyerx/curl-doom: DOOM, played over cURL Apple update turns Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user The Grand Line Cache TTL silently regressed from 1h to 5m around early March 2026, causing quota and cost inflation Building a Z-Machine in the worst possible language The peril of laziness lost Iran war: We spoke to the man making Lego-style AI videos that experts say are powerful propaganda AI Will Be Met With Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It GitHub - duguyue100/midnight-captain: Inspired by Midnight Commander, tailored to my taste. How to build a `git diff` driver · Jamie Tanna | Software Engineer Center for Responsible, Decentralized Intelligence at Berkeley The Local Universe’s Expansion Rate Is Clearer Than Ever, but Still Doesn’t Add Up - A new synthesis of astronomical measurements confirms a persistent mismatch that could point to physics beyond current models The disturbing white paper Red Hat is trying to erase from the internet – OSnews NetBlocks (@netblocks@mastodon.social) The Future of Everything is Lies, I Guess: Annoyances ‘Abhorrent’: the inside story of the Polymarket gamblers betting millions on war Productive procrastination — Max van IJsselmuiden maps, territory and LMs 447 Terabytes per Square Centimetre at Zero Retention Energy: Non-Volatile Memory at the Atomic Scale on Fluorographane Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons 20 Years on AWS and Never Not My Job The Seasons are Wrong The FAA wants gamers to apply for air traffic control jobs Artemis II crew splashes down near San Diego after historic moon mission Why weekends are under threat We gave an AI a 3 year retail lease in SF and asked it to make a profit | Andon Labs How a dancer with ALS used brainwaves to perform live On filing the corners off my MacBooks Installing every* Firefox extension OpenClaw’s memory is unreliable, and you don’t know when it will break Steve Blank Nowhere Is Safe Chimpanzees in Uganda locked in vicious 'civil war', say researchers watgo - a WebAssembly Toolkit for Go linux/Documentation/process/coding-assistants.rst at master · torvalds/linux GitHub - callumlocke/json-formatter: Makes JSON easy to read. Founding Product Engineer at Bild AI | Y Combinator A compelling title that is cryptic enough to get you to take action on it GitHub - Keychron/Keychron-Keyboards-Hardware-Design: Industrial design files for Keychron keyboards and mice. 100+ models with CAD assets in STEP, DXF, DWG, and PDF. Source-available, with commercial use allowed for original compatible accessories within the license terms. [ANNOUNCE] WireGuardNT v0.11 and WireGuard for Windows v0.6 Released 1D-Chess Helium Is Hard to Replace Keeping a Postgres queue healthy — PlanetScale Serenity Forge (@serenityforge.com) Our response to the Axios developer tool compromise Do Americans read print books, e-books or audiobooks more? Uncharted island soon to appear on nautical charts The Problem That Built an Industry Fragments: April 2 Python Release Python install manager 26.1 Bitcoin miners are losing $19,000 on every BTC produced as difficulty drops 7.8% God sleeps in the minerals Harness engineering: leveraging Codex in an agent-first world Apple Silicon and Virtual Machines: Beating the 2 VM Limit What have been the greatest intellectual achievements? The APL Programming Language Source Code
Why are there so few independent eval startups?
Thomas · 2026-06-23 · via Hacker News: Front Page

May 8th, 2025

Why are there so few independent eval startups?

Whenever there's a new AI trend, like agents, or voice, or voice agents, developers are faced with a flurry of options, and a subset of them are convinced that there's a business opportunity in identifying the best models and selling that knowledge to other developers—that is, selling evals. I've seen this in every wave of generative AI, since before we were calling it generative AI. I haven't seen any succeed, outside the safety evals niche.

I have a few theories why independent eval startups die. First, people who can design and run good evals can make more money and have more influence in other parts of the model development stack, so talent attrits. Second, eval startups have a hard time finding customers, because clients have to be technical developers who want to build with APIs, but also not technical enough to run their own evals. And third, eval startups face immense optimization pressure that renders their evals useless, both from garden-variety hill climbing and through pressure from model developers.

Eval talent is better used elsewhere

Good eval talent moves to other parts of the stack because the same skills that are needed for good evals are useful for post-training and for application development, and these areas capture more value, i.e. make more money, and have more direct influence on model development, i.e. are more prestigious and interesting.

For example, building a good eval requires collecting high-quality data, whether from operating a human feedback pipeline or through synthetic data. Collecting high-quality data is a major bottleneck for post-training. The amount of data in an eval is always smaller than the amount of data collected for post-training, by orders of magnitude, so in a real sense the value you generate from collecting data for evals is capped compared to the amount of data you generate from collecting data for post-training, assuming the value per datapoint is equal. Additionally, the financial return on a good post-train is potentially very high, up to a few hundred million or billions of dollars, whereas the financial return on an eval is capped at the size of your largest eval contract, which is nowhere close. This dynamic is readily apparent to smart young researchers who incidentally understand the notion of opportunity cost. An illustrative example is provided by three researchers who quit their jobs at Epoch AI evaluating agents to instead start a startup building post-training tools for agents [0].

Not enough eval customers

Even if an eval startup retains talent, it still has a hard time finding customers, because the Venn diagram intersection of the two circles "building on model API" and "unable to evaluate models" has negligible area.

When you look at charts comparing vendors by Gartner, a market research firm, the X-axes are fantastical and the Y-axes are fictional; in short, the charts are made to be interpreted by toddlers, who have technical caliber comparable to the corporate executives those charts are printed for. If you think I'm exaggerating I encourage you to Google "Gartner Magic Quadrant AI" then report them to the Department of Chart Crimes. This same quagmire ensnares AI eval startups. Any customer that is post-training models is definitely building evals themselves. A developer who understands the meaning and implication of a 10% improvement on AIME 2024, without tool use, computed with best of N, is not far from just running that eval themselves. If they don't understand the difference between GPT 4o and GPT 4.1 they're the kind of customer that wants solutions, not features, and certainly not an explanation of ELO. Gartner can dumb down for execs, who are deciding on large contracts with cloud providers, but eval startups seem always to want to sell to developers. Thus I am skeptical the market for eval startups is very large, even as the demand for AI services grows.

Big labs Goodhart evals

An eval startup that overcomes these two hurdles now has to face down the big labs themselves, who are highly incentivized to climb the public eval and apply pressure and tricks to improve their numbers. Once benchmarks are targeted models can improve rapidly, whether that's from benign adjustments like including more diverse data to outright training on test data, which Meta did for Llama 1 [1] and is rumored to have done for Llama 4 [2]. So eval startups have to be wary about a potentially adversarial relationship with big labs, who don't want to lose their own customers and will play their unfair advantages. Other kinds of tricks big labs employ include asking employees to vote for their own models on public leaderboards, poaching employees from eval startups, dangling free compute in return for better results, asking for private insights about model performance; the list of shenanigans is long.

A principled team can resist these gambits, but the pallor of suspicion is hard to dispel. For two years every researcher has asked themselves — why is every new model release always at the top of the LMSys Chatbot Arena leaderboard? A new report led by Cohere suggests the cause is systematic gaming, claiming that Meta tested twenty-seven unique model variants before releasing Llama 4 [3]. Meta, by the way, advertised that its tiny Llama 4 Maverick model outperformed GPT-4.5, before revealing that the result was achieved with a version optimized specifically for Chatbot Arena, and not the released version, which ranked abysmally. Goodhart's Law: when a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure. And all eval startups have to sell are measures.

Safety evals are an exception

I believe eval startups can work when they're targeting safety benchmarks specifically. Researchers who want to work on safety evals tend to be ideologically opposed to working on capabilities, which means they don't migrate to post-training or applications due to monetary incentives. (This is how the internal safety eval divisions of the big labs retain talent.) They can provide services to technical clients who are capable of replicating those services, because it's specifically important for safety evals that those services are provided by an external vendor and not only done internally. They can also sell to policymakers, or have business assured by regulation if proposals for external model audits are passed. Safety eval startups would still be vulnerable to Goodharting, but if labs are Goodharting safety evals, there are other things to be worried about. So safety evals have particular characteristics that make them more amenable than other evals.

I've presented three reasons why it's hard for eval startups to survive. The most pernicious of these is the first, which is that there are better opportunities available for any company or engineer who is good at evals, but the other two pose serious headwinds as well. I have nothing against eval startups, and I am rooting for them, but I am not counting on them.

❖ ❖ ❖

Additional comments

The above is for application-focused evals, i.e. evals for developers who want to build on top of model APIs. There are also startups that want to sell research evals to big labs. These will fail, because the primary point of research evals is to set research directions, and big labs will never outsource setting their research agenda. Also, outsourcing research evals adds a ton of latency to model iteration, and velocity is everything.

Added: May 21st, 2025. There's a difference between selling evals and selling evals tooling. In the same way that selling human labels is different from selling tooling to collect human labels - one is an ops business with ops margins, the other is a SaaS business with SaaS margins - selling evals and selling evals tooling have two very different economics. LM Arena, the organization behind Chatbot Arena, today announced a $100M seed round [4]. That's a very large sum of money. For comparison, Mistral, the French company aiming to train frontier models, raised only slightly more in their seed in 2023 [5]. LM Arena has the advantage of millions of volunteers labelling for free, effectively compensated with access to otherwise-expensive frontier models, but I still don't think that makes selling evals a great business for them. I think that if they do well it will be through offering supplementary services, like selling software or selling access to data streams.

❖ ❖ ❖

❖ ❖ ❖

Thomas Liao's toucan seal