Joe Rogan had a heavy exchange with guest Gad Saad when the podcast star claimed there is a “big fear” in the United States that Israel is covertly forcing President Donald Trump and other politicians to do the country’s bidding.

The two discussed the U.S.-Israel relationship during the latest episode of The Joe Rogan Experience on Tuesday.

“In this country, the concern with Judaism is the support of the Israeli military,” Rogan said. “That’s the concern. The concern is the amount of influence that it has on the United States government, how we got into the Iran war, why we give them so much influence over our military, over our decision making, over our politicians.”

Rogan continued, saying AIPAC “famously” supports a large number of American lawmakers.

“That’s the big fear, that there’s an inordinate amount of influence that Israel has over foreign policy, our decisions, and even our political structure,” he added.

Saad — a Canadian marketing professor who is currently teaching at the University of Mississippi — responded by saying there were a lot of ways to tackle this issue.

But he started off by saying that, even if you take Israel out of the equation, there are plenty of other countries like France and the United Kingdom that would be thrilled if Iran never obtained a nuclear weapon.

“So to frame the issue of the U.S. is attacking or is involved in the attack on the Iranians as the United States doesn’t have personal agency, [that] they’re all wood crickets that are being puppeteered by this incredibly powerful lobby called Israel — that simply doesn’t pass the smell test,” Saad told him.

Saad continued by saying Israel has “shared interests with the United States — as most allies would — where they both agree that probably an Iranian regime that has nuclear weapons would not be a good thing for world peace.”

He added:

Because these two countries have maybe greater testicular fortitude than the NATO countries, it seems as though the Israelis are puppeteering the Americans.

But do you really think Donald Trump is sitting and saying, “You know, had I not been such a weak guy with no personal agency, I wouldn’t have fallen sway to the incredibly influential Zionist lobby?”

Rogan didn’t answer his question.

“Well, it’s not just incredibly influential; it’s the amount of financial support they gave his candidacy,” Rogan countered. “And again, all the different politicians that are beholden to Israel. That’s the concern that a lot of people on the Right and on the Left have.”

Their conversation comes after many politicians have criticized the ties between America and Israel recently. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) said she opposed any military aid to Israel last month, and Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA) joined her in opposing funds for Israel’s Iron Dome defense system.

Pundits like Tucker Carlson have heavily criticized Israel as well, with Carlson arguing Israel is “in charge” of the U.S. He has also claimed the Iran war is being “waged” strictly on behalf of Israel.

President Trump, meanwhile, has scoffed at claims Israel pushed him into the war. 

“If anything, I might’ve forced Israel’s hand,” Trump said in March.

And last weekend on 60 Minutes, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he wanted to see U.S. aid to Israel cut to “zero” in the next decade. The U.S. sent $3.8 billion to Israel last year, which is the amount it will receive each year through 2028.

Saad explained later in the podcast on Tuesday that he supports Israel primarily because of its “foundational values of liberty,” which he said most closely resemble the U.S. and Canada in the Middle East.

He then asked Rogan where in the Middle East he’d rather have one of his daughters study than in Israel.

“That’s interesting,” Rogan said, before saying Saudi Arabia or the United Arab Emirates. “It’s pretty safe there.”

Watch above via YouTube.

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