Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro (D-PA) joined All-In podcast host Jason Calacanis this week to discuss the state of American politics, the rising anti-Semitism in the country, and President Donald Trump’s war in Iran.

“Are you part of the Jewish-American diaspora that believes, ‘Hey, Israel has the right to defend itself, but maybe Gaza went too far?’” asked Calacanis at one point during the lengthy discussion.

“Well, first off, let me say this: I don’t view this issue as a Jewish American, as you said,” replied Shapiro, adding:

I view this issue as an American, and I view the issue in a way of trying to understand what is the best thing for America, which, to me, is having peace and stability in the Middle East. Okay, that’s how I approach these issues. And I’ve been clear and consistent about this long before October 7 — that I think Netanyahu, the leader of Israel, is someone who has been leading Israel down a dangerous and isolated path. I think he has made Israel more isolated in the world community. He has fractured what used to be a nonpartisan, or bipartisan, American support for Israel, and I think has put Israel in a very dangerous place.

At another point in the interview, as the discussion turned to the war in Iran, Shapiro said, “America should never be led around by any other nation. It should always be about America’s interests, our national security interests. We should never ever be bullied, as maybe President Trump was, by any world leader.” Shapiro was referring to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu as the world leader who “bullied” Trump, which he later makes clear.

“Why did he do it?” Calacanis pressed, referring to Trump launching the war.

“First, Rubio went out and said he did it because if we didn’t move then, Netanyahu was gonna move and was gonna force our hand. Then they walked it back,” Shapiro replied, adding:

He said seven or eight months ago that they destroyed their nuclear capabilities. And then came back seven or eight months later and said we had to go in because we had to destroy their nuclear capabilities. I don’t know. Then they said it was about regime change.

Well, great. I mean, we went from like an 80-something-year-old Ayatollah to a 60-something-year-old Ayatollah, who by all accounts seems to be far more hard-line. I’d hardly call that successful regime change. To me, it is hard to — I think you’ve seen, I’ve been trying to be very forthright answering your questions. You’re doing great. I don’t know how you answer that question because the president never answered that question. He never sat in the Oval Office and looked the American people in the eye and said, “This is why we’re going in.” And you know what? This isn’t semantics, this isn’t politics. If you don’t know why you’re going, you don’t know how the hell to get out.

Watch the clip above.

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