Dan Abrams spoke to Newsmax host Greg Kelly on Tuesday’s episode of his SiriusXM radio show and pressed Kelly on his recent, savage criticisms of Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth.

Abrams, the founder of Mediaite, began by introducing Kelly and noting his distinguished military service. “In his past life, he flew Harrier attack jets as a U.S. Marine Corps officer, nine years on active duty, another dozen in the reserves, eventually achieved the rank of Lieutenant Colonel,” Abrams said before digging into Kelly’s criticism of Hegseth, which comes not only from a veteran, but a well-known MAGA-aligned media figure.

Kelly, who is known for his bombastic presence on social media, has repeatedly posted vicious attacks on Hegseth, calling the former Fox News weekend morning show host everything from “Despicable” to “Fake.”

“Wow, Greg Kelly is going after Hegseth again and again and again,” Abrams said of the attacks, while asking Kelly to pinpoint when he first turned on Hegseth. Kelly said he had been concerned about Hegseth leading the Pentagon going back to the transition, when Hegseth was first named for the position.

“I’m doing it from a place of principle, and I’m doing it in a way—Twitter, you know, that’s how we speak on Twitter—and I am proud of it. I don’t take anything back,” Kelly insisted, adding:

“There’s always truth in my tweets, and that’s what makes them, I think, powerful, and they land. So look, Hegseth is immature. He doesn’t belong in the job!

“Now, I will say this, and I have been watching closely. There is something to be said for a Hegseth-like person in that job. I mean, right, somebody who’s never worked in the swamp, somebody who has never worked for the deep state, and I do believe that those things exist and they’re negative.”

As the interview wound down, Abrams pressed Kelly on whether or not he believes Trump should fire Hegseth.

“Now, it is not my position to fire him or keep him in office. You know what I mean? And I would imagine—” Kelly replied as Abrams pressed, “But you think he’s unqualified.”

“Well, certainly. However, Dan, we’re in the middle of a war, right? We are also in the middle of a very competitive election season. President Trump has concerns beyond that, and I think he has to factor everything in. He knows how I feel. And if he can, if there is some merit in having Pete stay, and there very well might be, there very well might be. I don’t see it. I’m not privy to it,” Kelly replied, adding:

I do appreciate that Pete has a certain flexibility independent of the swamp that Esper, Panetta, Mattis, and all the other typical secretaries do not have. He is not so burdened, and there are things to be appreciated there. But ultimately, it’s not my call. Yes, we all have the right to sound off, but it’s President Trump’s decision. And he has to make a decision based on more than just what Greg Kelly says. Fair enough?

“Of course, yeah, yeah. Except that I want to know what Greg Kelly says, and Greg Kelly doesn’t seem to want to say what Greg Kelly says,” Abrams responded.

“No, I mean, I just, Dan, I’m being honest with you,” Kelly argued as Abrams conceded, “You’re in a tough spot. You’re in a tough spot, you are a MAGA guy—”

Kelly interjected, “It’s not a tough political spot. It’s not a tough political spot. It’s a spot where I respect President Trump. I respect the other things I cannot. I do not know what he knows, right?”

“Look, to me, he’s this, that, and the other thing. You know, at this point, there are about a thousand things about Hegseth that I don’t know. You know what it’s like to be in the situation room with him in a moment of crisis? I don’t know what that’s like. Pete may be doing spectacular things behind the scenes. I tend to doubt that, but I can’t rule it out. I can’t rule it out, Dan. Maybe he has risen to the moment, but I tend to be pretty skeptical,” Kelly concluded.

Watch the full interview above.

New: The Mediaite One-Sheet "Newsletter of Newsletters"
Your daily summary and analysis of what the many, many media newsletters are saying and reporting. Subscribe now!