Conservative host Tucker Carlson denied calling President Donald Trump the “antichrist” when pressed by New York Times journalist Lulu Garcia-Navarro during a deep-dive sit-down for the paper’s show, The Interview.

Carlson has had a recent very public falling-out with the president over issues like the Iran war and memes depicting himself as Jesus Christ.

In one recent show, Carlson asked if Trump could be the antichrist, and on another show with accused rapist-turned-Christian Russell Brand, the two discussed Bible passages about the antichrist, with Carlson calling one passage, “Ripped from the headlines.”

“You’ve been talking on your show about whether Trump is the ‘antichrist,'” Garcia-Navarro said during the interview, to which Carlson replied, “I have not said that.”

“On your show, the day after Easter, you noted he did not put his hand on the Bible during his swearing-in ceremony as president —”

“Correct,” Carlson agreed.

Garcia-Navarro continued, “— and you said, and I’m quoting, ‘Maybe he didn’t put his hand on the Bible because he affirmatively rejects what’s inside that book.’ And then on a recent show, you went further, saying: ‘Here’s a leader who’s mocking the gods of his ancestors, mocking the God of gods and exalting himself above them. Could this be the antichrist?’”

“I actually did not say, ‘Could this be the Antichrist,'” Carlson maintained. “I don’t know where that comes from, but I know that those words never left my lips because I’m not sure I fully understand what the antichrist is, if there’s just one. I actually tried to understand it. I may have said some are asking that. I am not weighing in on that because I don’t understand it.”

“So to be clear, though, that was not what you were suggesting?” Garcia-Navarro asked.

“If I thought Trump was the antichrist, I would just say so. If I understood what the antichrist is, I’d say so, and I don’t really,” Carlson answered.

“You’ve been discussing it repeatedly on your show, so I’m just trying to understand why,” Garcia-Navarro continued. “What do you want your audience to be considering?”

“I just want to make the point repeatedly again and again that there are unseen forces that act, that there is a spiritual realm, and we are subject to those forces for good and bad, and I don’t think that any person can deny that,” Carlson said.

Garcia-Navarro pressed one more time, saying, “I just want to make the point that you did say, ‘Could this be the antichrist?’ And then you said, ‘Well, who knows? You did use those words.”

This time, Carlson backed down.

“Man, then my apologies to you if there’s a video of me saying that,” he said. “I guess what I’m expressing to you is it doesn’t reflect exactly how I feel. It suggests a precision that I haven’t arrived at, that Trump is the antichrist. You’d have to define antichrist, and I know that I can’t define it, and it’s not clearly defined in the New Testament or Old Testament.”

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