Former CNN host-turned-independent journalist Don Lemon told Trevor Noah’s podcast that CNN’s management was aware they were being used to amplify Donald Trump, but they didn’t care because he was so good for ratings.

On the recent episode of Noah’s What Now? podcast, the host asked Lemon, “By the way…did you guys at CNN ever know that [Trump] was playing you guys like puppets? Did you ever figure it out at some point?”

“Oh, yeah,” Lemon answered. “I think, honestly, they maybe knew somewhere in the beginning, but it was good for business. Do you remember Les Moonves? He goes, ‘Trump is bad for the country, but he’s good for business.'”

Noah added, “And [CNN President] Jeff Zucker said, ‘Donald Trump is many things, but one thing I’ll tell you is, he’s a one-man ratings wrecking ball machine.’ Same with, I think it was Roger Ailes, who called Trump…when Fox was fighting with Trump, Roger Ailes was phoning Trump, and he’s like, ‘Yo, I know we’re beefing, but come on the show, man.’ Let me tell you something, Donald Trump is a media genius.”

“I tell you, Jeff got hip to it really early, but he never told us what to say,” Lemon said. “The only thing that he would tell us is, when we were doing interviews, when he allowed us to do interviews, is just, ‘Let him talk and fact check.’ You can ask him anything. It’s all in the way you ask the question…Or you compliment him before. ‘You’re a marketing genius. Now, this one thing I don’t understand because it didn’t quite go over well with your supporters. What happened?’ And then you’re in.”

Lemon explained how he said he knew Donald Trump was going to win the presidency in 2016.

“This was back in the day when I got newspapers delivered to my door. Now, everything’s online,” Lemon said, continuing:

So, I would get The Washington Post, The New York Times. Sometimes, they would send me just for fun, the company, like The New York Post, all of it. So, I opened these newspapers, and Donald Trump is on the front page. And then I opened the real estate section. Donald Trump is in the real estate section. Then I opened the editorial section. There’s Donald Trump. And then, whatever. And I was like…”Well, where is Hillary Clinton?” And I said, “This man is going to win…because he’s everywhere. And he’s sitting, who knows, in his bed, on a toilet or whatever, calling in the morning shows. He didn’t come in. He just calls in.

Noah added, “The reason Donald Trump did it like that is because he liked how it made him seem like the Wizard of Oz. So, when Donald Trump would phone into a news show, but wouldn’t be there, all the people on the show would just have to, like, sit there…You don’t realize subconsciously, you are saying that this person is so important, they do not have to be here, but we have to listen to everything they say. And he knew the power of it.'”

“That’s something I never even thought about!” Lemon exclaimed.

“He knew the power, but he knew it on a media level, he’s a genius,” Noah said.

Watch the clip above via the What Now? podcast on YouTube.

New: The Mediaite One-Sheet "Newsletter of Newsletters"
Your daily summary and analysis of what the many, many media newsletters are saying and reporting. Subscribe now!