DEAN OBEIDALLAH: I mentioned right before we started, I got an email from a listener to the show who said he had wanted me to talk about this guy, the UFC fighter, Josh Hokett, I guess his last name is, who insulted Michelle Obama at the UFC fight on the White House lawn and said, “Michelle Obama is a man, am I right, America?”.

And I said to him, I don’t know who this guy is and I didn’t want to give him any air. He was trolling. If he was a member of Congress, someone in power, I would of course talk about it.

But you were saying, no, no. You should. So I’m trying to figure out where is it, when am I helping the troll get oxygen and when are the times you got to take the fight to the people? So what’s your take on this?

W. KAMAU BELL: I mean, so I would say that, like, I would just say full stop. Black people often feel like we have to clean up white people’s messes. Like, you know, we have to sort of be the we have to be on the front lines of defeating racism.

That’s not always true. There’s a few good white people– Ted Danson, Steve Kerr, John Brown.

And I know you’re not white. I’m not trying to call you a white person, but I do–.

DEAN OBEIDALLAH: Half-White.

W. KAMAU BELL: But yeah, yeah, well, that’s not your fault.

But I do think that, like. This is where the ally conversation breaks down for Black people because Black people feel like we’re always being asked to be allies of other people.

And we don’t feel like we always get the same ally respect from those allies.

And so you have to understand that if you say, first of all, whatever Michelle Obama and Barack Obama are, whatever Barack Obama was politically as a president, Michelle Obama is beloved universally by Black folks.

So she is our, she’s Black royalty and. And I think you have to understand that, like, she is still held in high regard for Black people.

So anybody who fixes their mouth to say, as my grandmother would say, to talk badly about her is going to get our attention.

And the fact, if he had said that at a UFC fight, maybe Black people don’t maybe that Black person doesn’t feel like you should say anything.

If it’s just a UFC Fight. In their standard Abu Dhabi, it’s just maybe it doesn’t.

But because it was this event that was on the White House lawn, it’s being amplified a million times louder. And so we need to make sure that we’re amplifying the fact that that’s wrong.

And I think Black people, again, Of course, like I talked about it, a lot of Black people talked about it, but again, I think a lot of Black people feel like we’re always in the position of being asked to be allies to show up for other people and sometimes like we are not always showed up for in the same way and I don’t think anybody needed you to do an hour programming about it.

But like, before we started, I don’t know if we can say it now, but you were just like, f*ck that guy. I was like, that’s all you needed to say. Right, right.

You can get to the other stuff. Just also, f*ck, that guy, you know, we don’t need you to like grandstand and go on tour about it. But like we just need to know, okay, Dean also feels that, okay, good, good. We’ll let DL Hughley handle the deep breakdown. You just need say, f*ck the guy.

DEAN OBEIDALLAH: No, that’s it. And Josh Hokit, go f*ck yourself, because that’s what I I’m like, who is I’ve never heard of the guy. My guy is an a**hole. And to me, I’m

W. KAMAU BELL: He’s been given a microphone on the White House lawn.

DEAN OBEIDALLAH: That’s a good point.

W. KAMAU BELL: That’s the thing. At an event that is ostensibly, we know it’s not true, to celebrate the 250th birthday of America.

So now that certain history books will write, on America’s 250th Birthday, which it wasn’t because it was Trump’s birthday, this man said, Michelle Obama, that’s a part of the public record now.

So, and I think some people need us to, in the same way that like, as a Black man, cis-gender heterosexual Black man. I feel like it’s very important to call it out, not only because I love Michelle Obama, not only, because I think Michelle Obama that’s not kind and not right and sh*tty, but also it’s transphobic.

And I know that part of our role as allies is to make sure I call out the transphobia of it. And it’s because even though I’m not, because again, I need to make that these everybody, I feel very clear about like, I needed to make the people I’m with know that I’m with them.

DEAN OBEIDALLAH: And that’s a great way of looking at it.