MJF Talks AEW’s Evolution, His Legacy, And Double Or Nothing

Wolkenbrod: As a fellow Long Islander, I’m interested in the heavy Long Island influence on AEW’s roster. What do you think that presence says about the kind of talent that comes from the Island, and what makes Long Island stand out as a wrestling market?

MJF: Well, we’re just born better. I mean, it’s pretty simple. It's pretty cut and dry.

What I will say is, when you think of Long Island wrestling, you immediately think of me, and realistically, the only other two people that have even had a modicum of my success are Mick Foley and Matt Cardona.

As far as our roster goes, yeah, you’ve got a lot of Long Islanders, but are they at the MJF level? No, but they were more than great enough to be a part of the best professional wrestling roster ever assembled, which is All Elite Wrestling.

There’s a reason we’re called elite. So, I suppose, yeah, there's something in the water in the most magical place in the world.

Wolkenbrod: Are there any up-and-coming Long Island wrestling talents that you view as someone who can make an impact one day?

MJF: Absolutely. Off the top of my head, VSK, Leo Sparrow and Bryce Donovan are the three names I would throw out there.

We have another gentleman named Aaron Rourke who is currently ID’d by WWE, and I believe he’s either the WWE Evolve or WWE ID Champion. I always get it mixed up, but he’s doing great, great, great work right now.

Wolkenbrod: Once upon a time, you were viewed as one of AEW’s young pillars. Now, you’re one of the few people who have seen every version of AEW from the inside out. Does that change how you view your role in the company?

MJF: Yeah, I mean, I’m the quarterback, I’m the MVP, I’m Numero Uno. Everyone’s following my lead.

When I’m on top, we sell out pay-per-views, we have more pay-per-view buys, the ratings are better. I'm the go-to guy, as I should be. I'm the biggest star.

But what I will say is, as much as it pains me to admit it, while I would never call myself a team player, I am more aware now of how fortunate I am to be part of such a stacked lineup of individuals.

You know, when you look at the AEW roster, it's genuinely just an embarrassment of riches. There's really no other way to put it, and I could sit here and name every single person, but I don't have to.

If you want to just have fun, go to allelitewrestling.com and click on the roster link, and you're just going to see a murderer's row of talent.

I can genuinely say I've been in this company since day one. Hell, I've been the company since before day one. I was at the original All In, then proceeded to be a part of one of the biggest shows of all time at Wembley Stadium, where I sold 82,000 tickets, and I won the main event for the world title. No big deal.

I can say that from the start to now, this is easily the best roster we’ve ever had.

Wolkenbrod: Being there since the beginning, how have you seen AEW evolve? What does the company understand now that it maybe didn’t in 2019?

MJF: We understand that we don't need bums that don't comprehend what we're trying to do here.

We're trying to create a revolution. We're trying to create an alternative. We are not a stepping stone.

What we’ve managed to do is take the stone that people thought they could step on and turn it into a big, gigantic, beautiful statue that hovers above the entire wrestling industry.

There have been plenty of times where we brought bad eggs in because, “Oh, ex-WWE guy, they'll help sell tickets, they'll put butts in seats.” No, that's not how it works.

The way you sell tickets, the way you draw people in, is through human emotion. The way you draw people in is by exuding excellence. And if you don't believe in what you're doing, and if you don't believe in what you're a part of, how are you going to be able to exude confidence?

You're not. All you're going to be able to exude is selfishness, and I feel that we have gotten rid of just about every cancer that has ever stepped foot in my promotion that didn't understand what our end game is.

There are a lot of people in this industry right now, this sport, this business, whatever you want to call it, that are really unhappy with where they work. And the only people that we're interested in having are people that look at AEW as a place where they could be their most authentic selves.

Not people that look at AEW and go, “You know, I could go over there and be a tough guy right away.” Really? Have fun. Have fun leapfrogging me. Have fun leapfrogging Kenny Omega, Will Ospreay, Swerve Strickland, Hangman Page and that schmuck, Darby Allin. I want to vomit saying his name, but I’ve got to give him a little credit. He's a world champion, even though he cheated to do so.

You know, if you want to come to AEW, you better come correct, and you better come ready to play. And that’s the difference now with our mentality. We only take number one draft picks. That's it.

Wolkenbrod: Do you feel like there was a turning point in that evolution to where AEW is right now?

MJF: Absolutely. We had to get kicked in the face. We had to eat a lot of crud. We had to eat some piles of steaming s*** before we realized what our identity was and what we were comfortable being. That would be my answer.

Wolkenbrod: Your first world title reign ended while you were dealing with multiple injuries, while your second reign is now in the books under very different circumstances. When you compare the two, do you view the first one as a success, or did the second reign give you a more complete version of what you wanted that run to be?

MJF: I think the first one was obviously a success because it did great ratings and sold a great number of tickets. I also went down as the longest-reigning and youngest AEW World Champion of all time.

But did it go perfectly? No. You know, there were a lot of setbacks, a lot of things I wasn't happy with, and there was a lot of maturing and growing up that I had to do as an athlete.

And this time around, I'll make no bones about it. It's just a fact. I'm the best professional wrestler in the world, and if anybody can argue with me, go ahead and argue with the law, because that's about the only audience you're going to be able to find that will listen to you in regards to that. And that's the difference.

Now I'm the most complete professional wrestler in the history of this sport, and I'm proud of that.

I think the fact that I was able to accomplish what I was able to accomplish when I was 26 years old is insane, but I'm a 30-year-old man now, which is still insanely young, especially in this sport.

You know, you’ve got guys wrestling all the way up to their 50s now, but the fact of the matter is I'm a much more complete version of what I was then, which is terrifying, because I was already better than I'd say 99.99% of people in this game, and now I'm 100% better.

Wolkenbrod: You mentioned maturity. Do you recall a moment during that first title reign where you felt like you matured as a wrestler?

MJF: Absolutely. When I was on hand and knee staring at Adam Cole across from me after he put a knife in my back, that's about the last time I'm ever going to trust anybody, and it was immature of me to think that I could ever trust anybody in this business.

Wolkenbrod: And since we’re in All In season—at All In 2023, you went from being one of AEW’s pillars to the guy defending the world title in front of more than 80,000 people. Looking back at it now, did that moment feel validating, overwhelming, or strangely normal because of how quickly your rise happened?

MJF: To have that many people at the time chanting my name at the top of their lungs and singing along to my song that has no lyrics, when the only, and again, I’d like to point out what we've built here at AEW—we've made me a household name in this industry, and I've only ever been exposed through your TV screen via AEW.

And we filled up Wembley Stadium with me on top, a guy that the world's only ever known via this company.

So it was a very proud moment for me, and a very telling moment about the paradigm shift, as Jon Moxley would say, of this industry.

Wolkenbrod: At Double or Nothing 2023, the Four Pillars story was about four young stars trying to prove they could carry AEW’s future. Three years later, with Darby now champion and you chasing him again, how differently do you view that generation and where everybody ended up?

MJF: I mean, I ended up where I already was, which is still on top.

Darby has ended up on top, but unfortunately, he’s done it by being a crooked emo-looking dork.

And then, you know, Jack Perry. It pains me to do this, but I’ve got to give the kid credit. Former tag team champion, a former, I believe National Champion, and he just lost that to Mark Davis recently, but he's been on an incredible run.

And then you’ve got Sammy Guevara, who, you know, exists and breathes. Not a big Sammy Guevara guy, but I would be remiss to pretend that he’s not athletically one of the most gifted high flyers in the game today.

Wolkenbrod: Between all these marquee matches you’ve had over the years, there's always still a big focus on your work on the microphone. Do you still think people overlook your work in the ring after all these years?

MJF: Not anymore. I think that was definitely the case when I was younger.

I feel that I’ve had some of what will go down as the greatest matches of all time, whether it be the greatest Texas Death Match, the greatest Iron Man match, the greatest Dog Collar Match, or the greatest singles Collision match of all time against Kenny Omega.

I'll be honest, I thought our second go-around was even better than the first. I thought it was a tremendous match, mainly because I won yet again, clean as a sheet, I might add.

And I've also had some insane matches this year with the likes of Brody King, Bandido, Kevin Knight and Speedball Mike Bailey. I mean, the list goes on and on, and it's just gotten to the point where people have to stop pretending I'm just this great generational talker. I'm a generational everything.

Wolkenbrod: As your Hollywood profile grows, do you feel any added responsibility to represent the company outside the wrestling bubble?

MJF: 1,000,000%.

Look, Happy Gilmore 2 got more new eyes and fresh eyes on our product than ever before, and now we've got Violent Night 2 coming out in theaters in December, and I believe we're going to get a whole new swarm of people coming in to check out our product.

And you know, I've said it once, I've said it twice, I'll say it a million times. My goal, and no one should be surprised when it happens, is when you look at the Mount Rushmore of professional wrestlers turned actors, you know it's John Cena, Batista and The Rock. And as you know, Mount Rushmore has four faces etched into it, and I intend on being that fourth face, come hell or high water.

Wolkenbrod: How far do you think you have to go to get there?

MJF: We’ve got a lot of work to do, but I am definitely being put in the right situations and being given the right opportunities, and I’m definitely smashing it out of the park every time I’m given an at-bat in La La Land.

Wolkenbrod: You were part of one of the matches affected when TNA pulled talent from independent shows involving AEW wrestlers, and you had a lot to say at the time. Big picture, do you think space exists for wrestlers from different major companies to coexist on independent wrestling stages, or has the business moved too far past that?

MJF: I think Forbidden Door is proof that it can work if you’re not an a******. So, there’s my answer.

Wolkenbrod: What is the significance of Double or Nothing having the second-highest domestic gate in AEW history?

MJF: The significance is, once again, MJF on top is breaking records. It's just what I do.

Am I happy about the match stipulation? No, I'm not happy at all.

You know, I'll be honest. Darby calls me vain. What the word I would use is professional, and as a professional, I need to look like a star, walk like a star, talk like a star, and I've got to have the hair that I have.

And if he thinks he’s going to take that away from me, and if he thinks he’s going to still be world champion at the end of the night this Sunday, unfortunately, he's in for a rude awakening, and so are all of his fans.

Wolkenbrod: Hair matches have a long history in wrestling because they create a very visual kind of humiliation. What do you think makes that stipulation still work when it’s done right?

MJF: I mean, I don't know anyone who wants to be bald. You know, people hold on to their hair for dear life, and aesthetic liberty is something that people care deeply about.

It's something that I care very, very deeply about, because as we discussed prior, I have a Hollywood career to attend to, along with my professional wrestling career.

I don’t think MJF being bald is good for business, and I care about the business of All Elite Wrestling.

You know, the hair being on the line historically, as you said, has always been and always will be a gigantic marquee match, because I just can't think of anything more embarrassing than having your head shaved in front of thousands of people, knowing the pay-per-view buys, hundreds of thousands of people.

And it’s just not something that is going to happen under any circumstances this weekend. I’ll die before my head gets shaved.

Wolkenbrod: If you lose your hair at Double or Nothing, what scares you more: the humiliation, the memes, or the possibility that Darby Allin proves he was always more than just the daredevil chasing your spotlight?

MJF: Yeah, I can't even dignify that question with a response. Good day,
sir.

This conversation has been edited and condensed for clarity.