Kendall Wind (left) and Macky "Spider" Bowman (right) back Jon Spencer (center) on the new album 'Songs of Personal Loss and Protest,' now available on vinyl, CD or for online streaming via Spencer's Shove Records

Photo by Skyler Smith

A rock and roll show tends to be at its best when its defined by chaotic energy and a rebellious nature, a form of performance art capable of bringing people together unlike virtually any other. For songwriter, guitarist and music scholar Jon Spencer, live performance remains a crucial outlet.

Following the untimely demise of his Jon Spencer Blues Explosion in 2016, Spencer released the Spencer Gets it Lit album alongside The HITmakers in 2022. Since 2023, he’s worked alongside drummer Macky “Spider” Bowman and bassist Kendall Wind, rhythm section of New York rockers The Bobby Lees.

Dropping the Sick of Being Sick! mini LP in 2024, the trio has toured relentlessly since, building a chemistry that carried over to the studio as they began work on the full-length follow-up Songs of Personal Loss and Protest (now available via Spencer’s own Shove Records on CD, vinyl or for online streaming).

“I had known Kendall and Spider because I had played with the Bobby Lees, my old bands had. And I produced the Bobby Lees’ second album. I had also hired Kendall Wind to play bass on [Death Wish Blues] the Samantha Fish/Jesse Dayton album [that I produced],” Spencer explained during a recent conversation. “They’re both in their early 20s. It’s a working band. And, for me, touring and playing shows is the most important thing. There’s nothing like a great rock and roll show. So, after playing together and touring all over the world over a couple of years, the communication and the kind of language in the band - the musical language - really has developed and grown and deepened.”

Over the course of more than four decades, Spencer has largely eschewed political songwriting. Which makes the new album Songs of Personal Loss and Protest different. While it’s rarely done on the nose lyrically, the 12 new tracks address tumultuous times in America as Spencer further processes personal loss, with the idea of rock and roll nevertheless delivering a sliver of hope despite the times.

I spoke with Jon Spencer about what rock and roll means to him in 2026, taking a different approach on Songs of Personal Loss and Protest, the importance of speaking out in song and working outside the major label system in order to maintain a bit more creative control over his art. A transcript of our conversation, lightly edited for length and clarity, follows below.

Jim Ryan: In the press release for the album, you were quoted using the word rebellion when talking about rock and roll. To me, rock is at its best when it’s rebellious. But it hasn’t been very rebellious lately. What was sort of the goal as you got to writing and recording this batch of new music?

Jon Spencer: I think the goal is always just to write good songs - songs that make me want to jump up or move my hips or something. And I always want to try and make a good record. Beyond that, I didn’t have a grand scheme or plan.

I guess I was compelled to write these songs just because of what’s going on not just in my personal life but in the United States of America and the world. I’m not a big fan of political rock and roll. I think it’s always a bit odd. I think that rock and roll, in and of itself, is an act of revolution almost. And it certainly has changed the world. It’s changed our world. But I always get turned off having somebody tell me what I should be thinking or how I should live my life or how I should vote.

But I could not just sit on my hands. In the same way that I can’t stop reading the news and I can’t help but call my representatives and attend my local weekly protests. I don’t think people can just be sitting around. I’m not the first person to say this. But this is the moment, I think, where it’s like, “OK. What were you doing? How were you responding to these events?”

We have concentration camps, these detention centers, going up all over this country. And basic human rights are just out the window for a certain class of people in this country. Then there’s the awful AI data centers. There’s just so many bad things going on. And I know it might be scary or hard to take a stand but I think that people really need to think about what kind of world they want to live in and what kind of world they want to leave for their children.

Jim Ryan: What does the term rock and roll mean to you in 2026 with all that’s going on?

Jon Spencer: I’ve been talking about Little Richard a lot lately. Not just in this interview but also from the stage. And the reason I keep coming back to Little Richard is… well, I love him. Because he’s such a beautiful, crazy character. And I love his music. There’s so many different things which I love about who he was as a person and as a musician, performer and artist. But the reason I keep coming back to him is because who that guy was is the kind of person that they’re trying to really push out of our country.

Who wants to live in a United States of America that is only for white christian people? It’d be a f---ing drag. That doesn’t sound great to me! I mean, what is the one thing that is America’s gift to the world? Rock and roll. Jazz too. And both of these artforms, where did they come from? They came from people who are different!

It’s just so crazy. Why are we trying to go back to some made-up fantasy version of, I don’t even know what, the 50s? It makes no sense at all. The Adventures of Ozzie and Harriet wasn’t always cool looking at the 50s. It was Little Richard!

Rock and roll was a dangerous thing in a way. It was an artform which crossed racial lines and class lines. Of course, in our society, capitalism co-ops everything. But I think that rock and roll is, for me - because I can only speak for my own experience - but I know for myself that it is still very life-affirming. It is an incredibly powerful force, I believe.

Ryan: I grew up with every punk band going after Reagan. Later, that would kind of point me in the direction of the folk tradition and I worked backwards. But, as a fan of music, and a student of its history, I grew up under the impression that music was supposed to address the world. Today, that just seems to be happening less. I realize it’s rarely on the nose. But how important was it for you to go there on Songs of Personal Loss and Protest lyrically a bit?

Spencer: I have a sort of problematic relationship with political music or especially rock and roll. For me, rock and roll is a revolutionary act in and of itself. We could look to brother Wayne Kramer of the MC5 as an example, and the things he said about this. Rock and roll, if you want to get down to it, let’s look at where it came from. Let’s look at Elvis Presley and Little Richard. And these guys, these “cats” if you will, they were revolutionary just by doing what they were doing. And they weren’t singing, “Hey, let’s off the capitalist pigs!” They were singing hopped up rhythm and blues and blues.

There’s nothing quite like a good rock and roll show. Because it’s not just that I’m on the stage or the band is on the stage doing something, it’s that everybody - in a good show - everyone in the room is taking part in something. And it’s like a church service almost. It’s a great gathering of kind of communal, psychic energy. And, in these messed up times, that is extremely important. Because the design is to keep the general population just numb and tuned out - and stupid. Disconnected.

Look at smartphones. Super cool. I mean, we’re walking around with like mini computers. This is like Star Trek, you know? But these devices are not good for our health. They’re terrible for children and adolescents. And they keep us all isolated. And sort of cut us off from each other. If you want to have a community, you’ve got to build a community and you’ve got to stay connected. We’re not the enemy, you know? This thing of like trying to paint a certain type or color or class of people as the enemy and the great bugaboo in America? That’s just complete b.s. And distraction. It’s a macguffin to keep people from looking at what’s really going on: which is oligarchs and tech bros dismantling everything. And for what? For profit and for power.

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So, I am hopeful that there is gonna be a swing of the pendulum and a reckoning soon upon us. But it’s not just gonna happen on its own. We have to be involved. We have to work to make that happen. And that can be as little as just voting! Making sure you’re registered to vote and voting. Everybody has to find their own comfort level. But this is not the time to just tune out and turn away from your neighbor.

So, as far as protest music or political songs, I’m more into rock and roll as a completely bizarre artform that came down from Mars - rather than kind of folk music. Folk music is wonderful. But, personally, Little Richard is what gets me moreso than Woody Guthrie. Both are amazing artists. That’s just what moves me.

The Staple Singers are a great inspiration for me. Both their early gospel records and the soul protest records they did on Stax in the late 60s and early 70s. It’s just a bit of a delicate balance, a fine line.

So, I try to stay away from very specific stuff like, “Vote this on proposition number x!” Instead, it’s just kind of encouraging people to think and to engage. If you write a song that’s very specifically about a precise political cause or some event, then the song immediately becomes limited somewhat. Whereas, if you write a song about hope? That’s universal and timeless.

Ryan: Closing the album with “No More.” What made that the right sentiment to close the record with?

Spencer: So, this is where we’re getting to the personal loss part. I’m in my 60s now. Recently, I lost a parent. And more and more, people I know are getting sick and people I know are dying. Everybody I know is dealing with ailing and dying parents. And that’s part of life. This is the way things are meant to go. But it is a new chapter. And it’s heavy.

The songs were written and rehearsed before we went into the studio. But “No More” was something that came up while we were messing about, while we were waiting for a technical problem to be fixed in the control room. And we just started playing and the song came out. So, it was one of those really pleasant things. We were struck by lightning, if you will, while we were in the recording studio. So, it was a wonderful, happy accident. And then lyrically, it came from my recent experience with losing a parent. I lost one parent and the other had a battle with cancer.

It’s all kind of intertwined. But there’s these huge kind of glacial changes in my life. Big movements. Big, important things in one’s life. And, at the same time, the United States of America is just being turned inside out. It’s a lot.

Ryan: Even at the height of the major label system, you didn’t really partake in that… thing. You release now via your own label, Shove Records. You’re scheduling your own interviews. How important has it been historically to make sure you keep a little more control of this stuff as opposed to relinquishing that to a label?

Spencer: Oh, it’s extremely important. Yeah. I came out of the hardcore scene. And hardcore music was not really my favorite. There are some hardcore bands I liked. And hardcore, I think, was the true punk for America. New York and Los Angeles, there were some amazing bands and records. But I think the real sea change that happened was a few years later with the hardcore thing that happened all across the United States.

And hardcore was an eye opener for me. “Oh! Those people are out there playing! And if I want to have a band, I can have a band! If you want to put on a show, you can put on a show! But I don’t have to wait for anyone to give me permission to make a record or release a record. I could do it myself. But, of course, if I’m going to do it myself, I need money to pay for the recording studio and money for the pressing plant.”

There were just all these things to figure out. And you had to work a job to earn the money to do it. But, yeah, part of the do-it-yourself DIY philosophy is, I think, about responsibility. Maybe I am a control freak but this is just what I came out of and what I learned. And it’s on all levels. In the mid to late 80s, the American independent, or indie underground, scene was fantastic. There were people that you could network with and people that would help you and show you the ropes and help you figure stuff out. And in terms of everything: pressing records, distributing records, making a fanzine, booking a tour, booking shows, everything.

I had one experience with a major label. Boss Hog released [its self-titled second] album on DGC/Geffen. And it wasn’t a terrible experience. But that’s the only album that I’m involved with in a big way. And I don’t have the rights to it. We negotiated very hard with the company. But, for some reason - and I don’t understand it or can’t remember - but they would not give us that. So, I don’t own that record anymore, sadly. Or the band doesn’t. Now, it’s Universal! But they got in touch with me and Cristina like a year ago and want to do a reissue. So, we’re working on that.

Ryan: Do you otherwise, for the most part, own your copyrights and own your masters?

Spencer: Yes. I’ve never even done like a traditional publishing deal. I’m a member of a performing rights organization in BMI. But I’ve never done the whole signing away the catalog for something thing. Part of it is I don’t really trust people. And part of it is I don’t see any benefit, you know?

Ryan: Obviously, it’s been an odd last six years. Collective ups and downs, personal highs and lows. What is it that makes you want to jump in the van and keep doing this north of 60?

Spencer: Not sitting in the van, that’s for sure! Playing in a band and touring, the reason to do it is the hour and a half on stage - the actual performance, the show.

I like hanging out with my bandmates. I’ve been able to go to so many places through playing in a band. And have travelled to so many different states and countries. And met so many different kinds of people. I’ve been incredibly lucky. It’s been amazing. But the reason I want to keep doing it is the performance part of it.

Like I said, a good show is really just an amazing thing. And I suppose this is fixing or helping me with some deep, psychological need, you know? But it’s still there. And it’s still the fix that I need.